Forum Overview :: Gamerasutra
 
More of a developer apologist, considering I am one by Entropy Stew 02/23/2013, 6:36pm PST
I don't expect a corporation to spend time and money to do something without compensation. In fact, I don't even think it's reasonable to expect them to. I guess that makes me a republican or something.

1. Sticking old hardware inside the new kit is insane and expensive.
This is exactly what Sony did to support PS1 games on the PS2, and both PS1 and PS2 games on the PS3. Not only that, but according to the Wall Street Journal, removing PS2 compatibility wasn't even done to lower manufacturing costs:
There's a catch to the lower price: The new $399 PlayStation model will not play games designed for the PlayStation 2, Sony's popular older game console. Mr. Tretton [Jack Tretton, President and chief executive officer of Sony's U.S. games division] conceded that removing that capability, along with a few other features, isn't dramatically reducing Sony's cost of manufacturing the console but will instead encourage buyers of the entry-level PlayStation 3 to purchase more games designed specifically for the new system.


So you're saying they removed it because it was insane and expensive? I'm guessing that packing a PS3 into a PS4 would be an even worse idea than previous gens, considering the hardware expense of a PS3.

2. Emulation is the only alternative to hardware backward compatibility.
The Xbox 360 is compatible with the vast majority of games made for the original Xbox, by the same process that Sony uses to make downloadable PS2 Classics playable on non-backward-compatible PS3s. You could call it "porting", but that would dramatically overstate the amount of effort involved on a per-title basis. The only difference between playing Ninja Gaiden Black on your 360 and playing God Hand on your non-backward-compatible PS3 is that Sony requires you to pay $10 to download the disc image, whereas Microsoft offers that option, but ALSO allows you to use your original disc - the one they already sold you.


The original xbox was a hell of a lot easier to emulate on a 360 than a PS3 will be on a PS4. I'm guessing they were able to emulate at a higher level a lot of the time, like Wine does on Linux, since both xboxes were designed around DirectX. The emulation also required profiles for each game to be created and downloaded from XBL, which equates to work developing both the emulation layer itself and ensuring the individual profiles work. Even with all that effort spent, only half the Xbox library works under emulation (though I'm sure they concentrated overwhelmingly on the popular games).

The PS4 architecture is radically different from the PS3, and the cell itself is likely an enormous bitch to emulate. Thinking about getting the cell SPUs emulated nicely with the same latency requirements via a GPU-processed emulation (likely what is required from the new arch) makes my head hurt. Maybe SPU code can be compiled to shader code on the fly instead - I don't know, but I have a feeling it would be dodgy.

3. I was spoiled by Windows.
This is probably true. It is also a very sad commentary on the relationship between consumers and platform holders in the current market.


Not really. Back compat is hard, and stands in the way of progress. Microsoft bent over backwards to maintain it in a way that would make a Mongolian contortionist cringe, and it hurt the company. If they had put more effort into looking forwards, we might all be using Windows phones.

-/ES/-
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Pay attention when people tell you they don't care about backward compatibility. by Jerry Whorebach 02/21/2013, 3:43pm PST NEW
    How does this differ from GOG re-releases? NT by Entropy Stew 02/21/2013, 5:48pm PST NEW
        GOG exists in addition to backward compatibility, instead of in lieu of it? by Jerry Whorebach 02/21/2013, 7:19pm PST NEW
            In case you don't think those people really exist... by Jerry Whorebach 02/22/2013, 2:54pm PST NEW
                That's not what you meant by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 02/23/2013, 1:38am PST NEW
                    Never attribute to cowardice that which can be adequately explained by laziness. by Jerry Whorebach 02/23/2013, 2:42am PST NEW
                        Can't he be both? by Mischief Maker 02/23/2013, 6:56am PST NEW
                        What makes you think they can't? by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 02/23/2013, 9:47am PST NEW
                            People who get their political views from Heinlein ~= Randians/"Objectivists" by Horrible Gelatinous Blob 02/23/2013, 10:03am PST NEW
                                Do you have to make your ignorance that obvious? by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 02/23/2013, 10:53am PST NEW
                                    "Hm, that writing is so shitty it must have come from his own book." by Last 02/23/2013, 11:07am PST NEW
                                John Galt was far too religious a character for my taste by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 02/23/2013, 11:03am PST NEW
                                Yes, but.... by WITTGENSTEIN 02/23/2013, 3:12pm PST NEW
                    Commander tacos just spotted the bus in the background. by Again. 02/23/2013, 5:32am PST NEW
                        More about The Bus by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 02/23/2013, 9:59am PST NEW
                            Not disappointed. I'll give it an insano-score of 8.9 NT by That's pretty high, bro. Be proud. 02/23/2013, 2:58pm PST NEW
                                A mediocre disaapointment NT by professional game review score 02/23/2013, 3:09pm PST NEW
            What? Godhand can be downloaded for PS3 NT by Entropy Stew 02/23/2013, 2:50pm PST NEW
            You're also trivializing the difficultly of a port, and misunderstanding the rol by e of a console Entropy Stew 02/23/2013, 3:29pm PST NEW
                Entropy Stew: corporate apologist? by Jerry Whorebach 02/23/2013, 4:12pm PST NEW
                    More of a developer apologist, considering I am one by Entropy Stew 02/23/2013, 6:36pm PST NEW
                        Neither of you mentioned what Sony actually did do with the PS2 by Fullofkittens 02/23/2013, 7:10pm PST NEW
                        Do you make more money selling PlayStation games than you spend buying them? by Jerry Whorebach 02/23/2013, 8:26pm PST NEW
                            Shut the fuck up, Jerry. I'm almost coming! NT by Sony's ES-polished knob 02/24/2013, 1:22pm PST NEW
                                I don't like Sony. I like stupid arguments and justifications even less NT by Entropy Stew 02/25/2013, 6:15pm PST NEW
                            Consumers looked out for their own interests by creating emulators by Rafiki 02/24/2013, 8:20pm PST NEW
                                You're talking to a guy who spent more on a 3Dfx card to run UltraHLE than it by would've cost to just buy an N64. 02/25/2013, 2:47pm PST NEW
                                    Remember when Apple users said Microsoft was the evil empire? NT by Mischief Maker 02/25/2013, 3:05pm PST NEW
                                        How ironic did I turn out? NT by 1984 commercial 02/25/2013, 3:07pm PST NEW
                                    Re: You're talking to a guy who spent more on a 3Dfx card to run UltraHLE by Rafiki 02/25/2013, 3:32pm PST NEW
                                        I have loads of MP3s recorded from vinyl, they play just fine on anything. by Jerry Whorebach 02/25/2013, 4:00pm PST NEW
                                            So once they make a PS4 version of FF, like they made an MP3 of that vinyl, NT by does it become excusable again? 02/25/2013, 7:57pm PST NEW
                                                Except there is no real difference except to recharge people. by Worm 02/25/2013, 9:00pm PST NEW
                                                "They"? Anyone can make an MP3 from a record, provided they own the record. NT by That seems fair to me. 02/25/2013, 9:20pm PST NEW
                                                    So when CDs first came out, that was inexcusable, but once burners were feasible NT by it gets a pass. 02/26/2013, 3:29am PST NEW
                                                        It's pretty telling that you have to go back to analog tech to find an analog. NT by My Blu-Ray reads CDs *and* DVDs. 02/26/2013, 4:21am PST NEW
                                                            Ok, did your iPod play CDs? SNES play NES? by Rafiki 02/26/2013, 12:12pm PST NEW
                                                                Can we stop the comparisons to media? They're horrible by Entropy Stew 02/26/2013, 3:22pm PST NEW
                                                                Where did you get the idea I'm anti-emulation? From that time I sued bleem!? by Jerry Whorebach 02/26/2013, 3:27pm PST NEW
                                                                    I can't believe my SNES would not play Ikari Warriors. Super my ass NT by Entropy Stew 02/26/2013, 3:38pm PST NEW
                                                                        I know! Console BC was in a pretty shameful state before Sony raised the bar. NT by Jerry Whorebach 02/26/2013, 3:48pm PST NEW
                                                                            Here's why its not the same, beyond "standards are higher nowadays". by Jerry Whorebach 03/02/2013, 11:34am PST NEW
                                                                                That sounds more like 360 is a problem due to reliability than any back compat by Entropy Stew 03/02/2013, 11:52am PST NEW
                                                                                    The 360 is especially bad, but I've had problems with all my disc-based consoles by Jerry Whorebach 03/02/2013, 12:30pm PST NEW
                                                                                        I think the PS4 will be rock-solid from a quality standpoint, because by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/03/2013, 11:39pm PST NEW
                                                                                Blowing on the cartridge in a desperate bid to make your NES work again NT by They make t-shirts out of that meme 03/02/2013, 3:23pm PST NEW
                                                                                    Numer of Xboxs fixed with q-tip and rubbing alcohol NT by probably not many 03/02/2013, 4:51pm PST NEW
                                                                                        Lead-free solder will be the death of us all NT by Entropy Stew 03/04/2013, 10:52am PST NEW
                            Re: Do you make more money selling PlayStation games than you spend buying them? by Entropy Stew 02/25/2013, 6:14pm PST NEW
                                I didn't buy a PS3, Stew. I'm not an idiot v_v NT by Jerry Whorebach 02/25/2013, 6:26pm PST NEW
                                    Is that canadian for "I'm not employed" Or are you just too proud to admit that. NT by Your schtick here is cute. 03/02/2013, 2:48pm PST NEW
                                        Why are you so bitter, anonymous guy? by Jerry Whorebach 03/02/2013, 5:11pm PST NEW
                                            I think I'd prefer a diet that does not result in mercury poisoning NT by Entropy Stew 03/03/2013, 8:45am PST NEW
                                                Maybe he's shooting to be Dr. Manhatten for Comicon Vancouver!? NT by Worm 03/03/2013, 8:50am PST NEW
                                                    I think you're thinking of silver poisoning NT by Entropy Stew 03/03/2013, 12:38pm PST NEW
                                            Are you still eating tuna every day, Jerry? by Mysterio 03/04/2013, 6:55pm PST NEW
                                                There is literally nothing funnier than a grown man losing his shit because he NT by thinks you're eating too much fish. 03/04/2013, 7:50pm PST NEW
                                                    Except maybe Jerry exhibiting Cable Bros levels of denial through levity NT by Mysterio 03/04/2013, 8:15pm PST NEW
                                                        I'm not sure what it is I'm supposed to be denying here? by Jerry Whorebach 03/04/2013, 8:37pm PST NEW
                                                            It's time Jerry took a salt wife. by Souffle of Pain 03/04/2013, 8:43pm PST NEW
                                                                Says the guy who was blowing the Path of Exile fanboy last week NT by What do you mean "one of us"? 03/04/2013, 8:46pm PST NEW
    10 May 2016: Microsoft caves, Final Fight now backwards compatible on Xbox One. by Jerry Whorebach 05/11/2016, 1:34am PDT NEW
        10 May 2016: Microsoft caves, Final Fight now backwards compatible on Xbox One. by Ice Cream Jonsey 06/18/2016, 11:18pm PDT NEW
 
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