Caltrops - Jordan Peterson - Hero or Hate Crime? - Oh no, my mind is not "made up"

Forum Overview :: Jordan Peterson - Hero or Hate Crime?

by Commander Tansin A. Darcos 09/06/2018, 9:23pm PDT

Roop wrote:

Original Title: Re: A man of numerous opinions
Commander Tansin A. Darcos wrote:

The other opinion of his I disagree with is his religious faith. I personally am an Atheist...

See there's you're problem. You've made up your mind about God already, and just like a fundamentalist, have all your arguments all lined up and are ready to reject him immediately, but relax a second.

(Loud Game Show "You Lose" buzzer sounds.) Hold it! Hold it right there! First, I am already relaxed. Second, your sentence "See there's you're problem," should read "See there's your problem." Third, I have not made up my mind. I have simply come to the conclusion that all of the reasons I had when I was a Christian for believing in a god or gods are wrong, and no new argument provided to me has been able to provide evidence sufficient to change my opinion back. If you think you actually have evidence to prove the existence of a god or gods, I'm open to hear it. The only problem is you won't have any new idea and any suggestion you make is either insufficient, inaccurate, or inconclusive, among with having logical fallacies, question begging, errors or even lies. I hear these arguments for god or gods all the time and there's always something wrong with them. Every single time.

It's not that my mind is made up against the existence of a god or gods, it's that whatever so-called "evidence" provided to propose a god or gods exist is so faulty and specious as to be trivially easy to drive, not a truck through, but to drive a tunnel-boring-machine through.

Roop wrote:

I know I know, his Bible lecture would take a week to listen to and he just put up his Sam Harris debate and that's something like six hours, so who has the time to go through all that, I get it. I haven't even listened to any of it either but I'll try explaining anyway. When interviewers ask him if he believes in God, he'll be evasive, answer "What do you mean by God?"

I accept that as a reasonable question because most religious people "just know" what "god" is even though they couldn't tell you if you pinned them down. Professional apologists cannot allow themselves to be trapped by having to define god because once they raise any serious qualification they will find either their god no longer works or becomes incomprehensible.

I used to play this game for fun with religious people - with their consent - where I point out that you cannot have both a god with omniscience and people with free will. If god already knows everything we will ever do from the instant of conception through the moment of final brain death, then we have no capability to choose anything; the choice was already made and we have no capacity to change it.

Invariably, the person would say - it got to be so common I started to believe maybe there really isn't free will - that "god doesn't make you do anything."

And I would respond "I never said she did. What I am saying, is if the person's life choices are already recorded like a movie, they can't change what is already predestined."

Roop wrote:

He never talks about faith or prayin like a preacher. What he does say he believes in is the Superordinate Principle.

I read that the first debate night with Sam Harris was just the two of them agreeing on the right language. Once they figured out exactly what the other meant with the words they used, they actually got somewhere the next night.

If anything this gives Peterson a slightly higher level of "honesty," as professional religious apologetics generally do everything they can to obfuscate what they are saying, to try and make the other side "nail jelly to a tree." Other tricks include attempting to shift the burden of proof and to use thought experiments to claim imaginary things as if they were real.

After you listen to a few of these debates you start to catch the arguments in favor of god that keep getting repeated, and after a while you start to recognize what is wrong with them. Every single one of them.

A man of numerous opinions by Commander Tansin A. Darcos 08/27/2018, 4:47pm PDT NEW

Atheist is just another word for grown-up by Vested Id 08/27/2018, 6:01pm PDT NEW

Re: Atheist is just another word for grown-up by Ice Cream Jonsey 08/27/2018, 8:30pm PDT NEW

Re: A man of numerous opinions by to own the cons 08/27/2018, 6:24pm PDT NEW

Re: A man of numerous opinions by Roop 09/01/2018, 8:02am PDT NEW

Oh no, my mind is not "made up" by Commander Tansin A. Darcos 09/06/2018, 9:23pm PDT NEW

So you're saying you're mad at Jesus NT by Roop 09/08/2018, 1:45pm PDT NEW

Why would I be mad at a fictional character? NT by Commander Tansin A. Darcos 09/14/2018, 12:05am PDT NEW

Yeah that's what I was saying, your mind is made up by Roop 09/14/2018, 1:09am PDT NEW