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by Mischief Maker 02/18/2013, 7:36am PST |
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fabio wrote:
Mischief Maker wrote:
From his first meeting with sietch stilgar to his attack on Arrakeen, he is constantly facing resistance from Fremen traditionalists and constantly fighting off assassination attempts. It takes all his training and mental powers just to survive living with these maniacs.
Upfront ritual combat challenges. The book hammers it home (again and again and again) that House politics involve benign politeness on the surface with skulking hidden threats from every corner. Fremen society was the total inverse: straight talk to directly challenge rivals but total trust and cooperation outside of that.
You're right, I shouldn't have used the word "assassination," but I argue against the total trust and cooperation.
Paul's goals and the values of Fremen society were constantly at odds. There's a scene where we learn Paul has faced so many of these upfront ritual challenges (that would have resulted in his death if he lost) that Chani has taken to fighting them for him to cut down on unnecessary distractions. Right before the end of the book there's real anger rumbling in the sietch because the time has come for Paul to challenge and kill Stilgar and he still hasn't done it; even Stilgar is insulted. Paul has to use the Bene Gesserit voice in order for them to buy his argument that killing his best lieutenants right on the eve of the big battle isn't the wisest move. Even during the assault on Arrakeen, the Fremen disobey his orders to abandon some equipment that has already served its purpose because, as Stilgar tells him, "The Fremen don't like wasting equipment!" even though a frustrated Paul tells them that once he has the throne the Fremen will never want for equipment. |
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So I reread Dune. by Arbit 06/05/2012, 6:31pm PDT
Don't continue. Stop right there. Trust me. NT by Mischief Maker 06/05/2012, 7:11pm PDT
The second and third books are alright. Stop reading after that. by Entropy Stew 06/05/2012, 7:13pm PDT
I can buy that evolutionary pressure has made a people more badass by Arbit 06/06/2012, 4:08pm PDT
Well, the Sardaukar were the only opposition the Fremen actually complimented by Entropy Stew 06/08/2012, 3:48am PDT
I remember reading when Jessica cut the Shadout Mapes she only bled for a second by WITTGENSTEIN 02/16/2013, 1:05pm PST
beefswelling NT by An adult 06/07/2012, 6:23pm PDT
It's not perfect by fabio 06/05/2012, 8:02pm PDT
I don't think the complicated explaining away of firearms was an allegory. by motherfuckerfoodeater 06/06/2012, 10:28pm PDT
I could never stand the writing. by skip 06/05/2012, 8:07pm PDT
The universe's internal logic re: Holtzmann is contrived but at least consistent by WITTGENSTEIN 02/16/2013, 1:12pm PST
Not just any hostage, a Bene Gesserit bride with superhuman sexual prowess. NT by MM 02/16/2013, 10:28pm PST
Also, DeVries fucked up. by MM 02/16/2013, 11:02pm PST
That's like a Rube Goldberg revenge scheme though. by WITTGENSTEIN 02/17/2013, 10:26am PST
Leto already knew the attack was coming, complete with Sardukar, he explained it by Paul 02/17/2013, 10:58am PST
They expected a raiding force, etc. But this is a faggot argument for nerds. NT by WITTGENSTEIN 02/17/2013, 11:04am PST
Look, here's Dune by Mischief Maker 02/17/2013, 11:45pm PST
Sounds like he lifted the race consciousness thing from Last and First Men by Vested Id 02/18/2013, 12:26am PST
Re: Look, here's Dune by fabio 02/18/2013, 12:41am PST
Re: Look, here's Dune by Mischief Maker 02/18/2013, 7:36am PST
I just wished they had developed the Thurfir and Feyd plots to completion by fabio 02/18/2013, 7:54am PST
Agreed. NT by Mischief Maker 02/18/2013, 7:56am PST
Whoops. by Mischief Maker 02/18/2013, 7:57am PST
Just be glad Alexandro Jodorowsky never got his 14 hout adaptation made. by Mischief Maker 06/14/2013, 9:48am PDT
hour NT by Mischief Maker 06/14/2013, 9:48am PDT
I forgot about that, BUT.... by WITTGENSTEIN 02/17/2013, 10:27am PST
"His wife was bene gesserit, the signs are all over him." NT by Jessica 02/17/2013, 10:56am PST
"I really love choking on cock and spending inordinate amounts of cash on a J.D" NT by MischiefMaker 02/17/2013, 11:05am PST
Re: The universe's internal logic re: Holtzmann is contrived but at least by fabio 02/17/2013, 5:09pm PST
What further retaliation could there have been? He didn't care at that point. by WITTGENSTEIN 02/17/2013, 5:57pm PST
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