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People always put extra conditions on what Mary Sue means by Vested Id 01/28/2020, 6:33am PST
blackwater wrote:

The term came from the fan-fiction world. A Mary Sue is a character that someone drops into an existing universe. If the character was there all along, they're not a Mary Sue.

The distinction matters. When a character is there from the beginning, the story tends to be balanced around that character's abilities and powers. So Superman and Batman are powerful, but they also have powerful enemies. You could say the same for Picard and Kirk, or Luke Skywalker and Leia. But when some author adds a Mary Sue to the universe, it unbalances things.

For example, in the recent Star Wars movies, Rey was a huge Mary Sue because she could effortlessly do things that it took Luke Skywalker years of training and effort to do. This cheapens the original trilogy. Why should anyone care about Luke's struggle if Rey can do all that stuff on day one? She can even beat the main bad guy right out of the gate. Why should anyone care about the Skywalker saga if Rey (whose parents were originally "nobodys") is just as powerful?

Authors who aren't good enough to come up with their own shit want to drop these kind of characters into an existing universe to fulfill some kind of fantasy. Maybe it's a power fantasy, or maybe it's a fantasy of showing how awesome their preferred race or group is ("grrl power"). Whatever. They don't see that by creating this kind of character, they're cheapening everything else in the story.

And these authors always, always feel the need to rub their Mary Sue shit all over the existing storyline. If it's a Harry Potter fanfic, the Mary Sue will show up all the time to show how he's smarter than Harry, prettier than Hermionie, whatever. If anything was impressive in the original work, the Mary Sue will have to make a point of showing how they're even more impressive.


This is fine analysis, but I think you're talking about a manifestation of the Mary Sue type. Other people insist it's a "self-insert" because the original example was, which is a desperate feminist manuever to control the meaning.

Any primay character, namely women, who have no flaws can be recognized as a Mary Sue. It's just a fact about human psychology — a feeling that women ought to embody virtue.
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Star Trek: Picard S01E01 by Ice Cream Jonsey 01/24/2020, 6:06am PST
    The parts where Picard is on the screen are great. The rest are not. Thankfull NT by y, he's on there most of the time. 01/24/2020, 7:16am PST
    Re: Star Trek: Picard S01E01 by San Fernando Investor 01/24/2020, 12:46pm PST
        It's an acceptable deviation from reality so I don't have to look at 180lb women by Bosley 01/24/2020, 2:28pm PST
            Tom Hardy had bad teeth in Child 44. by Bosley 01/24/2020, 2:38pm PST
        SPOILERS DONT CLICK by Ice Cream Jonsey 01/24/2020, 8:41pm PST
            They have to consider the cosplay ramifications at conventions NT by roll safe guy 01/25/2020, 6:35am PST
            I'm not happy to be correct by San Fernando Investor 01/25/2020, 12:06pm PST
                I still haven't seen the show but, like Bibbo, I have to stand up for Superman. by Bosley 01/25/2020, 3:51pm PST
                    Yeah, he really needs your defense by San Fernando Investor 01/25/2020, 9:25pm PST
                        You protected us, Superman, now it's our turn to protect you. by (With the TransPacific Partnership) 01/26/2020, 2:13am PST
                            There have been some good Superman stuff by blackwater 01/26/2020, 4:02am PST
                                Batman has all the same powers as Superman. by Mischief Maker 01/26/2020, 10:21am PST
                                    Cutting this off by San Fernando Investor 01/26/2020, 1:15pm PST
                                        I forgive you for not being interested in Batman. That's my good deed for today. by Bosley 01/26/2020, 2:03pm PST
                                        You are missing the point of a Mary Sue. by blackwater 01/28/2020, 5:58am PST NEW
                                            People always put extra conditions on what Mary Sue means by Vested Id 01/28/2020, 6:33am PST NEW
                                                So did the modern run Dr. Who retroactively become a Mary Sue on turning female? NT by Mischief Maker 01/28/2020, 6:40am PST NEW
                                                    This is such a retarded question that it would be fine to let it sit by Vested Id 01/28/2020, 6:48am PST NEW
            Okay. Except (SPOILERS DO NOT WHATEV by pinback 01/26/2020, 7:53am PST
                Re: Okay. Except (SPOILERS DO NOT WHATEV by San Fernando Investor 01/26/2020, 12:40pm PST
                Re: Okay. Except (SPOILERS DO NOT WHATEV by Ice Cream Jonsey 01/26/2020, 1:15pm PST
                Re: Okay. Except (SPOILERS DO NOT WHATEV by Mike and Rich 01/26/2020, 7:04pm PST
    Redlettermedia review by Mike and Rich 01/26/2020, 6:54pm PST
        I'm very mad at RLM right now for shitting on TRON (1982) NT by Fullofkittens 01/26/2020, 7:11pm PST
            Me too by Vested Id 01/26/2020, 8:40pm PST
        SPOILERS DONT CLICK OH GOD YOURE CLICKIGN by Ice Cream Jonsey 01/27/2020, 8:24am PST
        The preview picture on the video is enough to make me never, ever click on it. NT by pinback 01/27/2020, 11:14am PST
            They are doing that meme thing that Picard does NT by Eury 01/27/2020, 12:57pm PST
                Oh, well that makes it better. Wait I mean ten thousand times worse. NT by pinback 01/27/2020, 1:06pm PST
                    Why? NT by Eury 01/27/2020, 2:47pm PST
    They are fucking Roddenberrys corpse NT by Dick the Birthday Boy 01/27/2020, 12:41pm PST
 
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