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Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by Lizard_King 05/12/2003, 9:46pm PDT
Lufteufel wrote:

Lizard_King wrote:

All I see is a Secret Service that is extended far beyond its capacity, attempting to assess whether this was just one of the thousands of paranoid false alarms that they have to deal with or the real deal as efficiently as possible.

I can think of other, even more efficient methods, such as physical torture. Who decides exactly how far the SS can bend the law before it breaks?


An interesting question, raised most recently (I believe) by Alan Dershowitz (Harvard lawyer, professional asshole) in the context of 9/11. What does decide the ultimate justification of an act that seems like it should be facially wrong? You raise the example of torture. Would 1 "guilty" person be worth torturing to save the lives of 1 "innocent"? How about 1000 innocents? At what point is it irrational to sacrifice x number of lives for the rights of a criminal, traitor, or foreign attacker? I don't believe it is one that will be answered in a series of caltrops one-liners.

At any rate, the point I was getting at with INC is that it makes no sense to be concerned about purely theoretical or legalistic questions (ie no one has been materially harmed) when it comes to the Constitutionality of something when there are real tramplings of the Constitution's most basic precepts daily. To me, that is the equivalent of arguing for isolationism; such a stance would have made sense prior to, say, World War I, but in the current context is totally detached from reality regardless of how much more Constitutional it may be. It is my belief that adopting the Constitution has, for many Leftists and not too few "conservatives" and Rightists, become a retread of their favourite ad absurdum arguments, to be used on occasions when they don't want to deal with debate or, even more frightening for them, to offer a functional alternative.
PREVIOUS REPLY QUOTE
 
Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by Senor Barborito 05/12/2003, 8:34am PDT NEW
    Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by foogla 05/12/2003, 9:30am PDT NEW
        Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by Moab 05/12/2003, 10:02am PDT NEW
            Well, shit, you're keepin it real, EVERYTHING IS A-OK. by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 10:11am PDT NEW
                BUSH IS HITLER! by Moab 05/12/2003, 10:50am PDT NEW
                    Godwin, you suck... er, lose. NT by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 1:31pm PDT NEW
                        Closer to Maimon. by Moab 05/12/2003, 2:46pm PDT NEW
                            So many strawmen, so little time. At least it keeps you in shape, champ! NT by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 2:49pm PDT NEW
                                Re: So many strawmen, so little time. At least it keeps you in shape, champ! by Moab 05/12/2003, 3:07pm PDT NEW
                                    Re: So many strawmen, so little time. At least it keeps you in shape, champ! by foogla 05/12/2003, 3:53pm PDT NEW
                                        Addendum by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 3:57pm PDT NEW
                                            Re: Addendum by Moab 05/12/2003, 8:10pm PDT NEW
                                                Yes. NT by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 8:12pm PDT NEW
                                                    Re: Yes. by Moab 05/12/2003, 8:44pm PDT NEW
                                                        Failure to recognize sarcasm is a serious probelm in this forum by MM 05/12/2003, 8:52pm PDT NEW
                                                        You're still writing? by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 8:55pm PDT NEW
                                                            My brother used to have that problem. by Moab 05/12/2003, 9:01pm PDT NEW
                                                                I am timeless. You are stupid. by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 9:03pm PDT NEW
                                                            Fuck it, you win by Moab 05/12/2003, 9:06pm PDT NEW
                                                                Good game, yo. NT by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 9:07pm PDT NEW
                                                                    YOU WIN! PERFECT. -nt- by Street Fighter II announcer 05/12/2003, 9:48pm PDT NEW
            Your 20/20 hindsight is astounding NT by MM 05/12/2003, 10:51am PDT NEW
                Explain. by Moab 05/12/2003, 10:51am PDT NEW
                    No. NT by Zen Master 05/12/2003, 11:05am PDT NEW
                        So like, just in general then. Cool, thanks. NT by Moab 05/12/2003, 11:08am PDT NEW
                Flexes. Victory Dance. Humps Chun Li. NT by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 9:59pm PDT NEW
                    How the fuck??!? by Chairman Mao 05/12/2003, 9:59pm PDT NEW
                        YOU LOSE. NT by Street Fighter II announcer 05/12/2003, 10:09pm PDT NEW
                        :) NT by Moab 05/12/2003, 10:20pm PDT NEW
                        Are you SURE, of do you just think so? by Entropy Stew 05/17/2003, 3:03am PDT NEW
                            Re: Are you SURE, of do you just think so? by Moab 05/17/2003, 4:46pm PDT NEW
                                I don't think my code accounts for human choice properly NT by Entropy Stew 05/17/2003, 8:15pm PDT NEW
    Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by Lizard_King 05/12/2003, 10:44am PDT NEW
        Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by MM 05/12/2003, 10:50am PDT NEW
            What're you trying to say about Doctor Who? NT by Lizard_King 05/12/2003, 12:14pm PDT NEW
            Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by contrite Robin Williams 05/12/2003, 3:13pm PDT NEW
                Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by MM 05/12/2003, 8:54pm PDT NEW
        You're totally right. No, wait, I meant you're full of shit. by I need clarification 05/12/2003, 3:54pm PDT NEW
            Re: You're totally right. No, wait, I meant you're full of shit. by Lizard_King 05/12/2003, 4:10pm PDT NEW
                Oh, well, when you put it that way, you're even more full of shit. by I need clarification 05/12/2003, 5:00pm PDT NEW
                    Please stop being retarded. by laudablepuss 05/12/2003, 6:25pm PDT NEW
                        Yes, exactly. by Senor Barborito 05/12/2003, 6:33pm PDT NEW
        Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by Lufteufel 05/12/2003, 5:30pm PDT NEW
            Re: Secret Service to students: "We own you. You don't get any rights." by Lizard_King 05/12/2003, 9:46pm PDT NEW
 
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