|| by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 04/20/2012, 6:22pm PDT
Dangerous Dave wrote:
Oom Shnibble wrote:
A lot of universitied don't teach C/C++ or Pascal opting instead for Java or C#. This means they don't know how to clean up after themselves in code. This is bad. I also do not like Garbage Collectors. They are dark fucking magic that are not to be trusted. Yes, I know that this attitude is akin to some medieval distrust of black cats or some shit but I choose to be irrational about this. Especially since a lot of developers don't know that they need to dispose of unmanaged resources in C#.
Yeah, but we can't keep introducing students to programming via Pascal. It has zero real-world applications.
You really think so? C and C++ have dreadful string processing routines. I don't know Java or C# well enough to comment but I'm not sure if they do provide as good a set of string processing routines as Pascal does, and I'll bet that if they do, the reason they do is they moved to Pascal-style strings (length is a prefix at the start of the string as opposed to a string being a block of characters ending in a zero byte). I'll spot you any odds that a Pascal application to manage text - especially, say, text searching and text manipulation such as done by word processors and text processors and formatters - will do the job with less trouble, be easier to maintain, and can be written, debugged, tested and implemented faster than one written in C or its derivatives.
C (and the derivatives) just happen to be sexier and have more people interested in them. But Pascal is still going to be a better choice for a number of application environments where someone looks at the work to be done and sees where the advantages are vs. other languages.
I also find it unmitigated gall that says that a university only teach programming languages that are work-relevant as opposed to ones that might allow you to learn how to think better and improve your skills as a programmer. Universities are not supposed to be technical colleges, they should teach more than how to make enough money to pay for three squares a day and a mortgage every month. They should teach you how to think creatively and to see other ways to solve a problem.
If the C language had been designed correctly to take off some of the dangerous and bad constructs it could have been a far better language. And the bastard language from hell that C++ is might never have been the kind of kluge that it is. I can think of a couple of things: making identifiers case sensitive was the worst possible idea to come along in programming history. Programming is hard enough as it is and requires keeping a lot of things in ones head, now we add to this the idea that you can misspell a variable not only by having the wrong letters, but by the case of the letters even if not misspelled.
And the use of the equal sign as automatically being an assignment operator is another example of sheer insanity. There is no possible legitimate reason to put an assignment in an IF statement. Thus the construct if a=5 which is generally valid in other languages, always ends up making a equal to 5. Which is probably not what was desired.
No other language has ever had an equal sign in an expression used to assign a value. FORTRAN didn't because it used .EQ.; BASIC didn't because it knew that the only time an = means assignment is when there's a variable on the left; PASCAL got around the problem by using := for assignment, so = always means comparison. Other languages had no problem. C (well, and its derivatives) is the only language that requires == to indicate a comparison. It goes back to the days when memory was expensive and you had to find ways to simplify the compiler, and segregating assignment from comparison is one way to do it.
Dangerous Dave wrote:
I sincerely hope Assembler is still required and first, but keeping things at C for a while is acceptable. You can at least get a job if you've been taught C for four years.
As noted, with places moving to C# and Java, they're not teaching Assembler either. I think someone once said that C was the first portable assembly language. A lot of the constructs C has translate directly to what would normally require assembly code to implement.
As with Object Pascal compilers, most C compilers include a mode to enter assembly language where one has to implement something you can't do in the high-level language (usually either hardware related or requiring extreme speed, such as the direct use of assembly for doing math-intensive work such as graphics or encryption).
Jesus Fucking Christ. People. by 04/17/2012, 11:10pm PDT
Context? by 04/18/2012, 12:57am PDT
Re: Context? by 04/18/2012, 1:43am PDT
I have some news for you, Om by 04/18/2012, 1:07am PDT
Um by 04/18/2012, 5:14am PDT
This is correct. You're a much better programmer than TDARCOS by 04/18/2012, 8:26am PDT
Oh, and storage space is also increased by 04/18/2012, 8:36am PDT
Using a tree structure is an overcomplicated method, at least now by 04/19/2012, 10:22am PDT
You're a disaster by 04/19/2012, 1:06pm PDT
I forgot to mention your insane touting of this as a better approach vs trees NT by 04/19/2012, 1:35pm PDT
Actually, I know what I'm doing. Do you what you are doing? by 04/19/2012, 7:43pm PDT
Your data structure is analogous to a hash table with 27 buckets by 04/20/2012, 1:02am PDT
Re: Your data structure is analogous to a hash table with 27 buckets by 04/20/2012, 5:43pm PDT
Get dunked, son by 04/20/2012, 9:26pm PDT
Re: Get dunked, son by 04/21/2012, 2:28am PDT
Oh Jesus I get it now. by 04/21/2012, 9:02am PDT
Oh, it's just a really shitty skip list, then NT by 04/21/2012, 9:26am PDT
There's more than one way to implement a hash table by 04/21/2012, 10:40am PDT
His data structure is analogous to 27 buckets of shit. NT by 05/12/2012, 9:13am PDT
hey tansin by 04/21/2012, 6:10pm PDT
Re: hey tansin by 04/22/2012, 6:07am PDT
Re: hey tansin by 04/22/2012, 8:10am PDT
you would not believe the fucking scrub phds I've been handed to work with by 04/22/2012, 8:19am PDT
PhD is the rubber stamp indicating either greatness or utter uselessness by 04/22/2012, 10:18am PDT
I've learned to avoid the master's ones altogether by 04/22/2012, 6:36pm PDT
Re: hey tansin by 04/24/2012, 1:53am PDT
Re: hey tansin by 04/24/2012, 5:57am PDT
What is Pascal and why it is used by 04/19/2012, 9:31am PDT
Pascal is a terrible tinkertoy dead programming language. NT by 04/19/2012, 4:26pm PDT
Pascal/Delphi by 04/19/2012, 11:34pm PDT
Also (Mini-rant) by 04/19/2012, 11:44pm PDT
Re: Also (Mini-rant) by 04/20/2012, 7:20am PDT
The schools around here (Big Ten) start with Python then go to C++. by 04/20/2012, 7:39am PDT
Re: Also (Mini-rant) by 04/20/2012, 6:22pm PDT
Re: Also (Mini-rant) by 04/20/2012, 9:37pm PDT
Re: Also (Mini-rant) by 04/20/2012, 10:40pm PDT
Re: Also (Mini-rant) by 04/20/2012, 5:54pm PDT
Re: Also (Mini-rant) by 04/20/2012, 9:44pm PDT
Re: Also (Mini-rant) by 04/21/2012, 4:24pm PDT
Corection, I mean "one block of 511K free" in above article NT by 04/21/2012, 4:24pm PDT
That's just a smart allocator. Even C has them by 04/22/2012, 5:32am PDT
It's still automatic garbage collection by 04/24/2012, 2:00am PDT
No it isn't, you ignorant motherfucker. How can you be wrong so often? by 04/24/2012, 3:46am PDT
So you really think insulting someone is going to get them to listen to you? NT by 04/27/2012, 5:37pm PDT
Pretty sure he's serious about the ignorant part, maybe even the mother fucker! NT by 04/27/2012, 6:04pm PDT
I never fucked my mother. She charged too much. NT by 05/10/2012, 6:07pm PDT
OH GOD HIS FEELINGS NT by 04/27/2012, 6:36pm PDT
SPOILERS: He so fucked up the cheeseburger. It's amazing, you should check it ou NT by 04/27/2012, 8:53pm PDT
Re: Pascal/Delphi by 04/20/2012, 5:34pm PDT
What the fuck does this have to do with pointers? NT by 04/18/2012, 8:44am PDT
Re: What the fuck does this have to do with pointers? by 04/18/2012, 9:07am PDT
Exactly right, Jonsey, you nailed it! by 04/19/2012, 10:32am PDT
I got yer back, Commander. NT by 04/19/2012, 11:55am PDT
Counterpoint by 05/06/2012, 1:49pm PDT
HAHAHAHAH by 05/06/2012, 5:35pm PDT
Re: HAHAHAHAH by 05/10/2012, 6:41pm PDT
also I hope you mean I don't sound like I went to school for cs by 05/10/2012, 6:42pm PDT
Neither did I NT by 05/10/2012, 8:16pm PDT
Your degree is in scare quotes! NT by 05/10/2012, 8:33pm PDT
I did! NT by 05/14/2012, 2:38am PDT
Oh please, this has nothing to do with application development by 05/10/2012, 6:44pm PDT
Well I definitely feel safe now *hands over millions of credit card numbers* by 05/10/2012, 9:36pm PDT
Re: Well I definitely feel safe now *hands over millions of credit card numbers* by 05/12/2012, 8:43am PDT
You know less about security than you do data structures NT by 05/12/2012, 4:11pm PDT
Hi, my name is Ray by 05/14/2012, 1:49am PDT
Re: Hi, my name is Ray by 05/14/2012, 1:28pm PDT
TDARCOS: wrong enough to summon Ray back from 2fort by 05/14/2012, 6:19pm PDT
Accessing one item at a time by 05/16/2012, 3:28am PDT
Context: it matters NT by 05/16/2012, 4:04pm PDT
Part Two of this. by 05/25/2012, 9:19am PDT
Re: Part Two of this. by 05/27/2012, 9:51am PDT
What? Isn't the issue that you can't cast to an unrelated class? NT by 05/27/2012, 1:34pm PDT
yes by 05/27/2012, 1:58pm PDT
I don't get how TDARCOS understood it was casting, then failed to understand the NT by 05/27/2012, 2:05pm PDT
I think I did get most of it by 05/28/2012, 10:57pm PDT
He is close enough for government work -nt- NT by 05/29/2012, 11:56am PDT