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Forum Overview
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Short Dumbledores
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by Bananadine 11/15/2009, 2:52pm PST |
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Mischief Shai-hulud wrote:
If you're still confused, let me make one more analogy.
I wasn't confused. I was trying to make a subthread in which your initial topic was put aside in favor of some tangentially related questions of game design.
Mischief Shai-hulud wrote:
Bananadine wrote:
What are the names of the good shmups you've played that don't allow continues?
All shmups have continues, but almost always have subtle hints that you should not. Most shmups reset your score to 0 if you continue, and others prevent you from posting to the high score table. Many home ports like Gradius V deliberately limit your credits at the start and miserly dole out more over time. Also, many shmups have final bosses or entire levels you will never see if you use a continue.
All of them have continues! There's a rewarding way to play and a tedious way to play, and not one developer, to your knowledge, has made it impossible to play their shmup in the tedious way? Don't you think that's weird? Granted, it's not especially relevant to someone who already enjoys playing in the good way, or to anybody who you might convert by speaking or writing about it. You're trying to communicate this choice right now, and I'm saying the choice would best be expressed within a game's design; that's no help to you unless you're ready to drop everything you're doing and start making a game.
Mischief Shai-hulud wrote:
You're playing a tony hawk game, and you're in an obstacle course filled with ramps, railings, halfpipes, and more. You have been given the goal of accumularing X number of points to finish the level. The sooner you do that, the sooner you can watch an in-engine cutscene of Bam Maguera kicking his father in the balls. If you screw up mid-trick, your skater will splatter his brains on the pavement and you will have to start all over again. So in the interest of prudence, you skate to the widest, flattest part of the course and perform 50 ollies. Is this fun?
I'm not going to do something tedious just to get to the end of the level! I want to do something fun to get to the end of the level. And being challenged by the game to perform well for the reward of more game is one big thing that's fun for me! If many continues are available, the challenge isn't real, and that type of fun is unavailable. If I especially enjoy performing with the tools the game offers, then maybe I'll make my own challenge, as you're advocating with your playing-for-score strategy. In fact Zseni's Dance Dance Revolution analogy works almost perfectly for me--in that game, on a console at least, you can tell the computer you don't want to be forced out of a song when your life bar runs out; yet I liked dancing under pressure so much that I pretended this mode didn't exist. Only... I wasn't going for points. I played that game for years, and I still don't know how its scoring system works! There are probably shmup fans who play the same way--people so naturally aligned with the action that they play as if for points, without actually noticing the points. Wouldn't that be the ideal?
For me, that happened in DDR, and briefly in a couple of arcade shmups, but never in a shmup on a home system. I have a copy of Ikaruga, and I'd kinda like to play it well one day, but I might never get around to trying it again. It's not very exciting to think about taking up that challenge. It would be more exciting if I knew the game would resist a little. These games aren't so natural for me, and I need that support. Maybe if they were designed differently, people like me and people like you could both enjoy them. |
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Mischief Maker's Aborted Intro to Shmups by Mischief Maker 11/05/2009, 12:24pm PST 
Did anyone here enjoy Blue Wish Resurrection? by FABIO 11/05/2009, 10:31pm PST
That was kind of a slam (^-^) NT by bombMexico 11/06/2009, 1:06am PST
No homo! NT by Li'l Fabs 11/06/2009, 1:09am PST
How many posts have you made saying people don't "get" Starcraft? by Mischief Maker 11/06/2009, 8:18am PST
Knock yourself out with this by FABIO 11/06/2009, 9:02am PST
BWR just looked too fucking clip arty by Worm 11/06/2009, 10:44am PST
I wanted a shmup everyone would have access to by Mischief Maker 11/06/2009, 11:46am PST
What is this guy like in real life? NT by Wackest Lawyer Ever 11/07/2009, 5:16am PST
*DoDonPachi Bee Tie* NT by Mistrial Maker 11/07/2009, 5:30am PST
I'M GONNA MISTRIAL MY FOOT UP YOUR ASS IF YOU DON'T SHUT UP NT by Jhoh Creexul (custom software) 11/07/2009, 10:23am PST
I know shit's bad right now, with all that starving bullshit, and the dust storm NT by Weyoun Voidbringer 11/07/2009, 10:35am PST
You have no idea how "Wack" lawyers can get, dawg. NT by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/07/2009, 7:59am PST
Questions by Bananadine 11/07/2009, 5:16am PST
Re: Questions by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/07/2009, 2:35pm PST
Re: Questions by FABIO 11/07/2009, 2:45pm PST
Re: Questions by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/07/2009, 6:27pm PST
I'll try this more simply by Bananadine 11/08/2009, 3:51am PST
Re: I'll try this more simply by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/08/2009, 9:11pm PST
Re: I'll try this more simply by Bananadine 11/15/2009, 2:52pm PST
Re: I'll try this more simply by Mischief Maker 11/16/2009, 9:13pm PST
Oh GOD FORBID we hurt the IMAGINARY SMALL BUSINESS OWNER!! by Jerry Whorebach 11/16/2009, 10:58pm PST
I mean they're PORTS of games tailored to the ISBO by Mischief Maker 11/16/2009, 11:35pm PST
Re: I mean they're PORTS of games tailored to the ISBO by Bananadine 11/17/2009, 4:21am PST
Re: Questions by Ice Cream Jonsey 11/08/2009, 9:25pm PST
I'll tell you all about it, but you're going to need to increase the max msg len NT by Tim Rogers 11/08/2009, 10:05pm PST
Re: Questions by Bananadine 11/07/2009, 3:10pm PST
You know when you're doing something impossible, and you get that feeling like by the Force is with you? No? OK. 11/07/2009, 4:16pm PST
Re: You know when you're doing something impossible, and you get that feeling by Bananadine 11/07/2009, 4:25pm PST
How did you know? I didn't EVEN sign it :( by Jerry Whorebach 11/07/2009, 4:36pm PST
Your computer can play Youtube clips now??? by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/07/2009, 6:12pm PST
Yeah, I got a new computer. It has integrated graphics but is otherwise servicab by Jerry Whorebach 11/08/2009, 9:27am PST
Re: Yeah, I got a new computer. It has integrated graphics but is otherwise by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/08/2009, 10:40am PST
I've been waiting my whole life to be drafted into the Jeff Minter Earth Defense NT by mark 11/07/2009, 10:33pm PST
FWIW I feel much the same way about DDR by Noi Dau Don 11/08/2009, 6:03pm PST
Re: FWIW I feel much the same way about DDR by FABIO 11/08/2009, 6:48pm PST
Re: FWIW I feel much the same way about DDR by Noi Dau Don 11/08/2009, 7:02pm PST
Re: FWIW I feel much the same way about DDR by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/08/2009, 8:43pm PST
Re: FWIW I feel much the same way about DDR by Jhoh Creexul (custom software) 11/08/2009, 8:50pm PST
Re: FWIW I feel much the same way about DDR by FABIO 11/08/2009, 9:21pm PST
You stopped liking Godhand? NT by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/08/2009, 9:30pm PST
Why would anyone do that by FABIO 11/08/2009, 10:11pm PST
what? nt NT by FABIO 11/08/2009, 9:49pm PST
Thanks, Zseni NT by FABIO 11/08/2009, 9:06pm PST
I hope you don't think you're being clever. I told you I was changing nicks. NT by Noi Dau Don 11/08/2009, 9:25pm PST
Whoops! Thought you were a new de-lurk. by Mischief Shai-hulud 11/08/2009, 9:29pm PST
You'd have to read Zseni posts to know that NT by FABIO 11/08/2009, 9:48pm PST
You're such a Zseni expert you aren't EVEN fooled by my ATORs, liar. NT by Noi Dau Don 11/08/2009, 9:54pm PST
No, it was just ugly and boring. by Worm 11/08/2009, 10:46pm PST
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