Forum Overview :: Gamerasutra
 
Systems with procedurally-generated narratives and environments... by Fullofkittens 02/23/2014, 7:27pm PST
...is what Dwarf Fortress turned into by accident.

Are the stories interesting? Yup! People often remark that hearing about Dwarf Fortress is more fun than playing it.

Is the game fun and replayable? You betcha. What could be more fun than carving a thriving city out of bare rock, with an underground farm complete with a waterfall-driven irrigation system, only to have it all cataclysmically brought down by some lady-turned-mass-murderer that went crazy because her baby died? Or whatever happened the next time I played it. Who knows?

Is it the right way for a guy like Ken Levine to spend his time? Fuck no. Dwarf Fortress is in many ways the opposite of Bioshock. Levine brings up the example of board games, how they are comprised of systems, how they're appealing for that reason. True, but board games are more importantly comprised of models. The drama of Dwarf Fortress is generated procedurally with lots and lots of help from the imagination of the player. There are no voice actors in Dwarf Fortress. It doesn't have any specific sense of place or design. It's a bunch of fucking dots. The drama and the sense of place all comes from the player. The player is the auteur. Bioshock - for its faults - is a great game because it creates a new, specific, imaginary place in our cultural imagination. Dwarf Fortress is a toy that helps us make up sad stories about fantasy SimCities. Rapture is new real estate that you and I have both visited. It's as real as Castle Rock or the Nostromo.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm skeptical that Ken Levine isn't going to waste his time trying to offload storytelling onto players; he shouldn't have laid off 200 people in service of that. In the end he's going to try to find ways to insert his story into the players' stories. He should be spending his energies refining what he was able to accomplish with his good game instead.
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Bump this thread every time devs cut staff after a game launch NT by Souffle of Pain 10/11/2010, 1:02pm PDT NEW
    Raven by Souffle of Pain 10/11/2010, 1:03pm PDT NEW
        The only "downloadable content" I want from Raven is Take No Prisoners on XBLA by Jerry Whorebach 10/11/2010, 3:10pm PDT NEW
            Re: The only "downloadable content" I want from Raven is Take No Prisone by laudablepuss 10/11/2010, 3:39pm PDT NEW
                Awesome. I guess this makes you the Take No Prisoners of Caltrops posters? NT by Jerry Whorebach 10/11/2010, 8:17pm PDT NEW
        EA Canada by Souffle of Pain 10/28/2010, 10:23am PDT NEW
            Re: EA Canada by Ice Cream Jonsey 12/03/2010, 7:50am PST NEW
                Interesting thing about games being late by Fullofkittens 12/03/2010, 7:57am PST NEW
                    Re: Interesting thing about games being late by Ice Cream Jonsey 12/03/2010, 10:48am PST NEW
                        Valve? by motherfuckerfoodeater 12/03/2010, 10:59am PST NEW
                            Re: Valve? by Mysterious Stranger 12/03/2010, 1:24pm PST NEW
                                Re: Valve? by motherfuckerfoodeater 12/03/2010, 2:38pm PST NEW
                        Agile development and commercial games by The Happiness Engine 12/03/2010, 3:45pm PST NEW
                            Re: Agile development and commercial games by Bananadine 12/03/2010, 4:17pm PST NEW
                            Games with a subscription model fit the paradigm better, I think by Fullofkittens 12/07/2010, 9:38am PST NEW
                            3 YEARS LATER... by Fullofkittens 02/20/2014, 6:27pm PST NEW
                Re: EA Canada by Ice Cream Jonsey 12/03/2010, 8:37am PST NEW
                    That strong stalwart of California, EA Canada. NT by Ice Cream Jonsey 12/03/2010, 8:40am PST NEW
                    EA threatens to lay off Tiger Woods by Ray of Light 12/06/2010, 8:48pm PST NEW
                        Re: EA threatens to lay off Tiger Woods by Ice Cream Jonsey 12/06/2010, 10:26pm PST NEW
                            Re: EA threatens to lay off Tiger Woods by blackwater 04/10/2014, 9:02am PDT NEW
    Bizarre Creations by Souffle of Pain 11/17/2010, 11:48am PST NEW
    Disney closes Propaganda Games, makers of Tron: Evolution. by Jerry Whorebach 01/19/2011, 2:19pm PST NEW
        Closing the whole studio after a project is some scorched earth shit. by Some new games journalist should 01/21/2011, 3:01am PST NEW
            Can that article be written in the form of pasted press releases? by Ice Cream Jonsey 01/21/2011, 7:30am PST NEW
                :( NT by Blues News 01/21/2011, 6:35pm PST NEW
        Turns out the guy who invented Geometry Wars is named Stephen Cakebread. by Jerry Whorebach 01/24/2011, 3:34am PST NEW
    Team Bondi (L.A. Noire) by Ice Cream Jonsey 09/02/2011, 10:23am PDT NEW
        Re: Team Bondi (L.A. Noire) by jeep 09/04/2011, 12:45pm PDT NEW
    The Bank of America Confidence Game is almost over so they're laying off 30000 by jeep 09/15/2011, 9:24pm PDT NEW
    Visceral Australia? by The Happiness Engine 09/19/2011, 11:32pm PDT NEW
        It's too bad they DIDN'T wait until their game launched to fire these guys. by Jerry Whorebach 09/20/2011, 12:30am PDT NEW
            The subject of the above post is not Visceral Australia, but another developer NT by mentioned in the same article :( 09/20/2011, 12:34am PDT NEW
    CCP 20% layoffs (120 people) NT by jeep 10/19/2011, 7:15pm PDT NEW
        This is the thanks they get for rushing EVE Online out the door! NT by Eight years of gainful employment! 10/20/2011, 1:00am PDT NEW
            It was mostly the World of Darkness team that got axed NT by Entropy Stew 10/20/2011, 9:55am PDT NEW
                HAHA WOW by WITTGENSTEIN 10/20/2011, 3:34pm PDT NEW
                    nah he's a big KOTOR fan he'll just switch to that by jeep 10/21/2011, 7:01pm PDT NEW
                        "I used to control a space empire of nerds. Bow before me." NT by Darth Mittani 11/01/2011, 12:52pm PDT NEW
                            he used to make let's plays of the kotor games by jeep 11/05/2011, 3:31pm PDT NEW
                                that was the wrong link sorry NT by jeep 11/05/2011, 10:49pm PDT NEW
                                Re: he used to make let's plays of the kotor games by E. L. Koba 11/06/2011, 11:48am PST NEW
                                    a child drew it by jeep 11/06/2011, 3:49pm PST NEW
    Silicon Knights down to 25 people after X-Men: Destiny by Horrible Gelatinous Blob 10/31/2011, 9:13pm PDT NEW
    NetDevil closes Play Well Studios, 115 jobs gone NT by jeep 11/08/2011, 8:09pm PST NEW
        I interviewed with them once. by Ice Cream Jonsey 11/08/2011, 8:55pm PST NEW
            Re: I didn't by jeep 11/16/2011, 7:29am PST NEW
    Day 1 Studios (F.E.A.R. 3, MechAssault) I heard maybe 100 people by jeep 12/04/2011, 7:34pm PST NEW
    GSC Game World CEO Hryhorovych Announces Closure Of Company by McMoo 12/12/2011, 8:39am PST NEW
        That is a disaster. :( NT by Eurotrash 12/12/2011, 9:21am PST NEW
        That is very sad by motherfuckerfoodeater 12/12/2011, 9:24am PST NEW
            Get out of here, Stalker NT by The KGB 12/12/2011, 12:50pm PST NEW
        I felt Stalker just kept getting worse with every game they made by The Happiness Engine 12/12/2011, 11:33am PST NEW
            CoP was easy mode. NT by Gutsby 12/12/2011, 6:22pm PST NEW
                If you were good you could get an exoskeleton within the first 3rd of the game by WITTGENSTEIN 07/12/2012, 4:29pm PDT NEW
            I was just grateful for more Stalker goodness. Gameplay and balance was always by Eurotrash 12/14/2011, 5:07am PST NEW
                Metro 2033 was terrible. Like a haunted house train-ride. by The Happiness Engine 12/14/2011, 10:53am PST NEW
                    Metro 2033 development floundering without anyone from whom to steal by motherfuckerfoodeater 02/03/2012, 11:38am PST NEW
        Duke Stalkem Forever by motherfuckerfoodeater 01/17/2012, 7:12pm PST NEW
    id Software by jeep 01/11/2012, 3:18pm PST NEW
        unrelated by laudablepuss 01/11/2012, 3:41pm PST NEW
            there's not gonna be a fallout mmo, maybe play f2p Fallen Earth to see why by jeep 01/11/2012, 4:21pm PST NEW
                Re: there's not gonna be a fallout mmo, maybe play f2p Fallen Earth to see why by Brandon Flick 01/11/2012, 9:12pm PST NEW
                    Re: there's not gonna be a fallout mmo, maybe play f2p Fallen Earth to see why by jeep 01/12/2012, 11:36am PST NEW
            I still can't believe Bethesda paid $7,750,000 for the rights to Fallout. by Jerry Whorebach 01/11/2012, 9:24pm PST NEW
                I think the Troika people who didn't end up at Obsidian by jeep 01/12/2012, 11:33am PST NEW
                    I don't *think* there are any ex-Troika people at Bethesda, but I could be wrong by Jerry Whorebach 01/12/2012, 1:23pm PST NEW
                        my mistake bethesda got the guys from black isle by jeep 01/12/2012, 2:12pm PST NEW
    THQ confirms 240 job cuts, CEO takes pay cut by jeep 02/02/2012, 2:15pm PST NEW
        Since 2008, THQ has laid off nearly 700 people. NT by jeep 02/02/2012, 2:45pm PST NEW
    Eat Sleep Play laid off eight employees last week as it finishes Twisted Metal by jeep 02/07/2012, 7:45pm PST NEW
        Re: jeep's longings by N 02/07/2012, 9:09pm PST NEW
            so fr most of them are casual games by jeep 02/08/2012, 7:22am PST NEW
                Re: so fr most of them are casual games by N 02/08/2012, 4:34pm PST NEW
                    thanks by jeep 02/08/2012, 7:50pm PST NEW
        TM is going so suck so hard :( by M. Knight Trekkie 02/09/2012, 5:46am PST NEW
            Jaffe recently gave a talk on why games shouldn't try to tell stories. by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 02/09/2012, 4:10pm PST NEW
                This ator exposes TDARCOS as the fictional character we all expected. NT by But do we even care at this point? 02/11/2012, 9:58am PST NEW
                    Re: This ator exposes TDARCOS as the fictional character we all expected. by The Happiness Engine 02/11/2012, 5:04pm PST NEW
        Doublefine? by Entropy Stew 02/09/2012, 6:47pm PST NEW
            Re: Doublefine? by jeep 02/10/2012, 4:36pm PST NEW
    Obsidian 20-30 employees by jeep 03/15/2012, 8:59am PDT NEW
        Sooner or later game developers will start pulling Tonya Hardings on reviewers. NT by Mischief Maker 03/15/2012, 1:29pm PDT NEW
            no but maybe companies that aren't over a barrel will stop signing by jeep 03/16/2012, 10:57am PDT NEW
                Re: no but maybe companies that aren't over a barrel will stop signing by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/16/2012, 5:11pm PDT NEW
                    Clarification by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/16/2012, 5:17pm PDT NEW
                        That "people who did the work" thing made you out to be a commie. NT by Gutsby 04/03/2012, 7:03pm PDT NEW
                    Metacritic definitely isn't the problem by jeep 03/19/2012, 1:24pm PDT NEW
    6waves Lolapps lays off dev staff by jeep 03/20/2012, 7:20am PDT NEW
    Zynga buys developers of Draw Something for $180 million by + $30mil for "employee retention" 03/22/2012, 7:59pm PDT NEW
        not layoffs but it's sufficiently tragic by jeep 03/22/2012, 8:33pm PDT NEW
            It only took 40 people to make "Pictionary, but on a mobile phone"? NT by They ARE geniuses! 03/22/2012, 10:54pm PDT NEW
            didn't make them millionaires by jeep 04/01/2012, 11:03am PDT NEW
        hahaha, they just closed the studio by fabio 06/06/2013, 12:01am PDT NEW
            Snooped by 4 minutes! NT by fabio 06/06/2013, 1:39pm PDT NEW
        Activision buys Candy Crush developer for $5.9 billion by fabio 11/03/2015, 6:16pm PST NEW
    THQ 118 developers NT by jeep 03/30/2012, 10:31pm PDT NEW
        BioWare cuts 'Star Wars' staff by you guys are right about this 05/22/2012, 11:26am PDT NEW
            I can't find how many by jeep 05/22/2012, 8:59pm PDT NEW
    38 Studios and Big Huge Games Lay Off Entire 379-Person Workforce by jeep 05/24/2012, 3:04pm PDT NEW
        Lum came out of hiding to cover it by jeep 05/26/2012, 1:15am PDT NEW
        I know 2 of them through friends of friends by secrets 06/09/2012, 10:29am PDT NEW
            I don't know anything about full sail by jeep 06/09/2012, 9:21pm PDT NEW
                They're the most infamous of the "game school" degree mills for rich kids by TRUTH SIREN! 06/10/2012, 9:14pm PDT NEW
    THQ wipes out San Diego studio by jeep 06/05/2012, 9:24pm PDT NEW
    Radical Entertainment closes by jeep 06/28/2012, 4:23pm PDT NEW
        Getting that Prototype PC patch ain't looking good. NT by Ice Cream Jonsey 07/12/2012, 12:58pm PDT NEW
            They said they held on to enough people to ship it by jeep 07/12/2012, 3:04pm PDT NEW
                Re: They said they held on to enough people to ship it by Ice Cream Jonsey 07/12/2012, 3:33pm PDT NEW
                    Maybe you can blame Radical by fabio 07/12/2012, 4:45pm PDT NEW
    Rockstar Vancouver closed, 35 employees: move to Toronto or lose your jobs NT by jeep 07/10/2012, 11:09am PDT NEW
    Rich Vogel has "left" BioWare Austin plus layoffs by jeep 07/17/2012, 3:08pm PDT NEW
    Microsoft Vancouver lays off 35, cancels Microsoft Flight NT by jeep 07/26/2012, 8:10am PDT NEW
    the two guys who founded Bioware by jeep 09/18/2012, 9:48pm PDT NEW
    All of PopCap Ireland NT by jeep 09/25/2012, 8:20pm PDT NEW
    Over 100 at Zynga, Boston office, most of Austin, Chicago, Japan, UK by jeep 10/24/2012, 7:32am PDT NEW
        everyone working there got what they deserved NT by Souffle of Pain 10/24/2012, 9:20am PDT NEW
            Could never understand why Brian Reynolds went there NT by Roop 10/24/2012, 5:03pm PDT NEW
                The severance package? NT by Mischief Maker 10/24/2012, 7:02pm PDT NEW
                    Haha, true. BR IS all about strategy games NT by Ice Cream Jonsey 10/24/2012, 10:47pm PDT NEW
                he got in really early by jeep 11/26/2012, 7:31am PST NEW
        Re: Over 100 at Zynga, Boston office, most of Austin, Chicago, Japan, UK by motherfuckerfoodeater 10/24/2012, 9:19pm PDT NEW
            Re: Over 100 at Zynga, Boston office, most of Austin, Chicago, Japan, UK by Ice Cream Jonsey 10/24/2012, 10:40pm PDT NEW
                Isn't Denver a city? by The Happiness Engine 10/25/2012, 4:20pm PDT NEW
            This is actually a boom time of an unprecedented number of start up studios... NT by That make mobile games. 10/26/2012, 12:32am PDT NEW
    EA - SEALTeam 6 by Rafiki 11/09/2012, 6:45am PST NEW
        I thought breaching in bullet time was just a dramatic effect by Entropy Stew 11/09/2012, 2:47pm PST NEW
    Eurocom sheds staff, from over 200 to less than 50 by Concerned Fan Of Awful Shovelware 11/23/2012, 4:37pm PST NEW
        filed for bankruptcy yesterday NT by jeep 12/07/2012, 8:19am PST NEW
            I feel like this was my fault for not even thinking about buying Sphinx and the by Cursed Mummy. 12/07/2012, 9:03am PST NEW
    30 at Petroglyph by jeep 12/07/2012, 8:16am PST NEW
        So that doesn't really apply to this thread, does it? NT by Caltrops Administrative Review Boar 12/07/2012, 10:42am PST NEW
        Petroglyph should have been taken out and shot a long time ago by WITTGENSTEIN 12/07/2012, 5:09pm PST NEW
    Re: Bump this thread every time devs cut staff after a game launch by Souffle of Pain 12/17/2012, 2:02pm PST NEW
    Valve lays off 25? by jeep 02/13/2013, 1:16pm PST NEW
    Disney shut down Junction Point after Epic Mickey 2 by Rafiki 02/13/2013, 1:54pm PST NEW
        The power of two ^_^ NT by Disney 02/13/2013, 2:34pm PST NEW
    EA Montreal by Souffle of Pain 04/15/2013, 12:26pm PDT NEW
        Released on the last Tuesday of the fiscal quarter, aka SENT TO DIE NT by Mysterio 04/15/2013, 3:29pm PDT NEW
        turns out it was more than half the people in EA working on mobile by jeep 04/16/2013, 9:33pm PDT NEW
    LucasArts closes? by jeep 04/18/2013, 8:16am PDT NEW
    EA again "10% of the workforce" NT by jeep 04/25/2013, 12:52pm PDT NEW
    Zynga 520 people by jeep 06/03/2013, 1:30pm PDT NEW
        Longbets on when Facebook will start hemorrhaging NT by fabio 06/03/2013, 1:41pm PDT NEW
            I don't know but there's a pattern to web marketing by jeep 06/05/2013, 7:07pm PDT NEW
        Important to note this includes closing OMGPOP entirely, just 1 year after purch NT by $200 million well spent. 06/06/2013, 11:57am PDT NEW
            word is the purchase cost them 2-3 times that if you factor in the cost of NT by operation since 06/07/2013, 6:10pm PDT NEW
    So... video game creator sounds like a great job... haha NT by meeps 06/06/2013, 12:46pm PDT NEW
        no and it's about to be a lot worse by jeep 06/07/2013, 6:17pm PDT NEW
            Re: no and it's about to be a lot worse by Mysterio 06/07/2013, 6:38pm PDT NEW
                let's take this to another thread by jeep 06/07/2013, 7:03pm PDT NEW
    IO Interactive, makers of Hitman and Kane and Lynch, ~50% of workforce NT by jeep 06/18/2013, 7:38am PDT NEW
        Hadn't released a good game in 6 years. NT by WITTGENSTEIN 07/17/2013, 2:30pm PDT NEW
    we've been shown up by jeep 08/02/2013, 9:12pm PDT NEW
    Twelve Crystal Dynamics employees have lost their jobs. NT by jeep 08/13/2013, 7:11am PDT NEW
    all of 2K Marin NT by jeep 10/17/2013, 3:44pm PDT NEW
    Interwave 6 developers of Dark Matter by jeep 10/23/2013, 7:52am PDT NEW
    Victory Games closed after F2P Command & Conquer is cancelled by Horrible Gelatinous Blob 10/29/2013, 1:27pm PDT NEW
    every ea exec who came from another game company by jeep 01/07/2014, 8:29am PST NEW
    Did SB get fired today? by - 02/18/2014, 10:47am PST NEW
        I can't believe he actually said he was shitcanning people to go "find himself" NT by WITTGENSTEIN 02/18/2014, 11:01am PST NEW
            Levine is a tool. NT by A god damn tool 02/18/2014, 12:00pm PST NEW
        wow by jeep 02/18/2014, 3:30pm PST NEW
        Gamasutra on why it's so hard to report on this when you aren't a real journalis by Fullofkittens 02/19/2014, 5:57pm PST NEW
            "But I might not be a very good journalist" by Game Dev Spin Cycle 02/19/2014, 8:51pm PST NEW
                Re: "But I might not be a very good journalist" by Ice Cream Jonsey 02/20/2014, 6:53am PST NEW
                    Quote from a developer by Entropy Stew 02/20/2014, 10:05am PST NEW
            "like, real capital-J journalism." Ergh? NT by RetroRomper 02/20/2014, 7:56pm PST NEW
            Meanwhile in Capital-J Journalism by jeep 02/23/2014, 5:31pm PST NEW
                Attn aspiring games developers/screenwriters: there's more to life than fiction! by Jerry Whorebach 02/23/2014, 6:51pm PST NEW
                Systems with procedurally-generated narratives and environments... by Fullofkittens 02/23/2014, 7:27pm PST NEW
                    you're right about ken levine not being suited for that kind of game by jeep 02/24/2014, 8:17am PST NEW
    Sony Santa Monica (God of War) cancels unnamed game and lays off 50 NT by jeep 02/25/2014, 6:44pm PST NEW
    Eidos Montreal releases Thief, 27 employees... NT by pinback 03/05/2014, 2:11pm PST NEW
    EVE Online developer CCP said today it is canceling its long in development MMO by jeep 04/14/2014, 8:34pm PDT NEW
    airtight games released murdered soul suspect and then closed down by jeep 07/02/2014, 9:11pm PDT NEW
        Don't get Murdered, it's $50. Wait for a sale. NT by I guess 07/02/2014, 9:47pm PDT NEW
            well they put out quantum conundrum too and that was mediocre by jeep 07/03/2014, 5:40pm PDT NEW
    Avalanche for Just Cause 3 by Souffle of Pain 11/02/2015, 7:14pm PST NEW
        When asked why the developers were fired, a pointy-haired boss answered, NT by "Just Cause." 11/02/2015, 11:20pm PST NEW
 
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