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Wait, wait... by FoK 07/16/2003, 8:36am PDT
Senor Barborito wrote:


Eventually people will grow tired of behaving like children (fighting over trifles nonstop, breaking toys of others that they can't have) in a collective sense and desire to grow as a group. A cry of 'let us maximize our collective output and progress and save ourselves from X' will ring from shore to shore. Socialism is intended for that period of time and every human I have met has been capable of understanding this.



Has the theory that collective output would increase under a socialist doctrine ever been demonstrated? Why would you or anyone else make the assumption that socialism would maximize anything, besides equality? The great periords of humanity have thus far been characterized by wildly oligarchical (or, more accurately, plutocratical) systems (Athens, Rome, The US of A) since the drive to be a Have and not a Have Not is a fundamental urge that drives people to succeed.

Eventually either through brilliant design or sheer random probability involving circumstance1 a self-perpetuating and above all non-oligarchal (the primary failing of every communist nation in history is oligarchy2) society of decentralized socialism must, logically, emerge. Such a system stands a far better chance of stability and productivity once established due to heightened efficiency of all workers. In the case of a great cause, once that condition is met the society will dissolve. With brilliant design, the system will collapse from failure to adapt like any nation, unless the architect(s) is immortal.


Again, wha? Whence this assumption? Why would people work more efficiently?

For my own self, the X in 'cause X' has always equaled cessation as a natural byproduct of my own status as an agnostic (in the colloquial sense3) and having read Descartes.


Descartes big failing as a philosopher is that his "purely logical" systems always brought in bogus assumptions from outside the system. I think you're falling victim to the same problem here. One reason why socialism possibly wouldn't work as well (in terms of productivity) is that people who are driven to succeed work a lot harder than they need to to live, because they want to make a lot more money than they make. Entrepreneurs work 16 hour days to make sure that their businesses thrive... if there was no implied monetary incentive, no one would abandon their families to start a Pizza Hut franchise. Why would they?


3gnostics actually believed in God, but believed they did not or could not comprehend the form of God


I assume this was a typo, since there's a big difference between "gnosticism" and "agnosticism," much as there is a difference between things that are "typical" and things that are "atypical."

FoK
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Cretins of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your prosperity. by Lizard_King 07/13/2003, 6:52pm PDT NEW
    Rimshot by Lizard_King 07/13/2003, 6:57pm PDT NEW
        When in doubt, trot out the terrists NT by Damocles 07/14/2003, 12:09pm PDT NEW
            When in doubt, post nonsense. See above for example. by Lizard_King 07/14/2003, 7:20pm PDT NEW
                Re: When in doubt, post strawmen. See above for example. by Damocles 07/15/2003, 3:00pm PDT NEW
                    Re: When in doubt, post strawmen. See above for example. by Lizard_King 07/16/2003, 2:25am PDT NEW
                        Re: When in doubt, post strawmen. See above for example. by Damocles 07/16/2003, 4:53am PDT NEW
                            Which would imply I was a Republican to begin with. by Lizard_King 07/16/2003, 9:24pm PDT NEW
    Are you angry about the US administration being raped? You're so trolly lately. NT by Senor Barborito 07/14/2003, 7:16am PDT NEW
        You are the only person here who would think he's trolling by laudablepuss 07/14/2003, 3:36pm PDT NEW
        Sometimes I forget that you still buy that shit lock stock and barrel. by Lizard_King 07/14/2003, 7:18pm PDT NEW
            Man alive chile' these people dunn gimme the hinks by Sildenafil 07/14/2003, 7:33pm PDT NEW
                I guess if you're a Muslim idealist you need only plan for a third world economy NT by Lizard_King 07/14/2003, 7:55pm PDT NEW
                    Exactly by Senor Barborito 07/14/2003, 9:50pm PDT NEW
                        Re: Exactly by Forensic 07/15/2003, 6:49pm PDT NEW
                            Eeeeeeeeeeeeeenteresting NT by Senor Barborito 07/15/2003, 6:55pm PDT NEW
                        Re: Exactly by Lizard_King 07/16/2003, 2:21am PDT NEW
                            Re: Exactly by foogla 07/16/2003, 5:00am PDT NEW
                            Because it is the ideal solution for a mature humanity. by Senor Barborito 07/16/2003, 5:21am PDT NEW
                                Wait, wait... by FoK 07/16/2003, 8:36am PDT NEW
                                    6:30AM after a full night mining in SWG, bear with my spelling/grammar here by Senor Barborito 07/16/2003, 9:49am PDT NEW
                                        Re: 6:30AM after a full night mining in SWG, bear with my spelling/grammar here by Lizard_King 07/16/2003, 9:36pm PDT NEW
                                            Not quite by Senor Barborito 07/17/2003, 12:28am PDT NEW
                                            Re: 6:30AM after a full night mining in SWG, bear with my spelling/grammar here by foogla 07/17/2003, 2:23am PDT NEW
                                Re: Because it is the ideal solution for a mature humanity. by Lizard_King 07/16/2003, 9:29pm PDT NEW
 
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