Forum Overview :: Motherfucking News

what I was getting at... by godamit 08/18/2003, 2:19pm PDT is this: I always hear complaints about "it's unfair to tax the rich more than everyone else boo hoo." They point to a table like this (circa 1995): $0 - $23350: 15% $23350 - $56550: 28% (above 23350, plus 15% of 23350) $56550 - $117300: 31% (above 56550, plus 28% of 56550-23350, plus 15% of 23350) $117300 - $256500: 36% (etc) $256500 and above: 39.6% And say, see see? Totaly unfair. All those rich people have to pay MORE TAX than everyone else and that's just unfair. They like to point to a tax system like this (Dick Armey's proposed flat tax circa 1995): 17% on all income above $39,000 And say it's more fair because, well, you pay a flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate. But it's just not true. 1995 marginal tax rates (assuming standard deduction, income entirely in "wages" ignoring Social Security, etc.) are: Excuse the crappy colors and formatting. OpenOffice in linux sucks and cannot draw graphs worth shit so I had to paste this shit together using python + gimp. Also I should note the horizontal axis is "dollars" going from $0 to $1 Million dollars and the vertical is per cent taxes. NOTE that in 1995 the actual marginal tax rates are significantly lower: those making $5K or so less actually GET a little money from the government (disability, Social Security, etc), and those at the high income ends pay an average of only 29%, all told. But what if the 17% flat tax were really a 39.6% flat tax? Then compare IRS tax schedule with a 39.6% flat tax with a standard exemption: Oh ho! Looks a lot the same, and in fact, the superrich end up paying EVEN MORE than they did under the "unfair" "progressive" tax structure of the IRS. Which is of course obvious to anyone, the real deal with "flat taxes" is that certain parties want to hugely cut taxes by an enormous amount. "The rich" would be perfectly happy paying a larger share of their income in taxes --- as long as they pay less taxes then they do now! The "flatness" or "fairness" of the taxes is really irrelevant, but a useful dodge to throw out to people who I guess don't look at tax curves? Of course there are many other issues with the current tax system. Like how two otherwise identical accountants paying taxes wildly different then each other becuase, say, one of them has 2 kids and a mortgage and the other decides to rent an apartment and lives by himself. Or how certain corporations and individuals that makes billions a year pay zero or in some cases negative taxes each year. So unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'll read "It's unfair for the rich to pay a greater tax rate" as a deception to cover the real argument of "I want to pay less taxes."

What do you commies make of this? by Lizard_King 08/12/2003, 8:25pm PDT     caveat by Lizard_King 08/12/2003, 8:30pm PDT     Re: What do you commies make of this? by Fussbett 08/13/2003, 2:11am PDT         Re: What do you commies make of this? by Lizard_King 08/13/2003, 2:08pm PDT             Re: What do you commies make of this? by Fussbett 08/13/2003, 4:31pm PDT                 Re: What do you commies make of this? by Lizard_King 08/13/2003, 10:41pm PDT                     Re: What do you commies make of this? by Chairman Mao 08/14/2003, 12:03am PDT                         Re: What do you commies make of this? by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 12:37am PDT                     It's as if I never paid income tax... by Fussbett 08/14/2003, 12:08am PDT                         Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 12:42am PDT                             Think of it as insurance insurance by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 2:56am PDT                                 I do by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 3:51am PDT                                     Well why didn't you just say that in the first place? by creativepig 08/14/2003, 6:50am PDT                                         Because that wasn't the point by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 7:13am PDT                                     You are assuming you will never be poor by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 11:33am PDT                                         Seconded. by Chairman Mao 08/14/2003, 12:10pm PDT                                             Directed at L_K, not SB... NT by Chairman Mao 08/14/2003, 12:10pm PDT                                             Re: Seconded. by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 4:14pm PDT                                                 Awwwww by Chairman Mao 08/15/2003, 3:39pm PDT                                                     Re: Awwwww by Lizard_King 08/15/2003, 10:42pm PDT                                                         Re: Awwwww by Chairman Mao 08/15/2003, 11:19pm PDT                                                             Re: Awwwww by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 2:41am PDT                             Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by Fussbett 08/14/2003, 3:04pm PDT                                 Ferenginar, not Vulcan, but yeah NT by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 3:27pm PDT                                 Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 4:18pm PDT                                     Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by I need clarification 08/14/2003, 6:01pm PDT                                         Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 9:37pm PDT                                             Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by foogla 08/15/2003, 4:44am PDT                                                 Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 4:53am PDT                                                     Re: It's as if I never paid income tax... by foogla 08/16/2003, 6:59am PDT                                             Do you even read the posts you respond to? Or just choose not to respond? by I need clarification 08/16/2003, 5:04am PDT                                                 Re: Do you even read the posts you respond to? Or just choose not to respond? by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 5:08am PDT                                                     Re: Do you even read the posts you respond to? Or just choose not to respond? by I need clarification 08/16/2003, 1:48pm PDT                                                         Re: Do you even read the posts you respond to? Or just choose not to respond? by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 1:59pm PDT                                                             Re: Do you even read the posts you respond to? Or just choose not to respond? by I need clarification 08/16/2003, 6:29pm PDT                                                                 Re: Do you even read the posts you respond to? Or just choose not to respond? by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 6:39pm PDT                                                 We Now Pause for a Word From Our Sponsors by Bitter 08/16/2003, 8:30pm PDT                                                     That did sound a bit high. NT by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 8:43pm PDT                                                         Fucking subheadings vs titles by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 8:47pm PDT                                                             Re: Fucking subheadings vs titles by I need clarification 08/16/2003, 10:17pm PDT                                                                 Re: Fucking subheadings vs titles by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 11:08pm PDT                                                                     Creexul by Fussbett 08/16/2003, 11:14pm PDT                                                                         Re: Creexul by Flurgendorf J. Creexul 08/17/2003, 12:09am PDT                                     I snipped your insulting ending. by Fussbett 08/16/2003, 4:31am PDT                                         Re: I snipped your insulting ending. by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 4:50am PDT                                             What? by Fussbett 08/16/2003, 5:28am PDT                                                 Re: What? by foogla 08/16/2003, 7:06am PDT                                                     Oh! by Fussbett 08/16/2003, 1:31pm PDT                                             If we're going to make broad generalizations and metaphors by Senor Barborito 08/16/2003, 7:20am PDT                                                 I LIKE PIRATE METAPHORS NT by Entropy Stew 08/16/2003, 9:29am PDT                                                 Are you abandoning Nazis for pirates? by I need clarification 08/16/2003, 1:43pm PDT                                                 That's beautiful. I WANT TO BE A PIRATE 2!!!! NT by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 1:48pm PDT                                             Movie Targets! by I need clarification 08/16/2003, 1:35pm PDT             This is why the UK and Canada are now moving towards Swedish-style HC by Senor Barborito 08/13/2003, 4:39pm PDT                 Re: This is why the UK and Canada are now moving towards Swedish-style HC by Lizard_King 08/13/2003, 10:47pm PDT                     Good questions, glad we more or less agree on the basics, though. by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 2:53am PDT                         Re: Good questions, glad we more or less agree on the basics, though. by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 3:58am PDT                             Re: Good questions, glad we more or less agree on the basics, though. by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 11:31am PDT                                 Re: Good questions, glad we more or less agree on the basics, though. by godamit 08/15/2003, 5:06pm PDT                                     Re: Good questions, glad we more or less agree on the basics, though. by Lizard_King 08/15/2003, 5:49pm PDT                                         How about this: once you've got a greencard, you get healthcare by Senor Barborito 08/15/2003, 8:31pm PDT                                             Within the framework you suggest by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 2:44am PDT                                                 It's more of a 'welcome to America, now stop coughing up blood on our sidewalks' NT by Senor Barborito 08/16/2003, 3:06am PDT                                                     Can we get that printed on the Statue of Liberty? NT by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 4:55am PDT                         Re: Good questions, glad we more or less agree on the basics, though. by Zebco Fuckface 08/14/2003, 1:33pm PDT                             I don't believe that for a second. Prove it, link it, and I still won't. NT by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 1:45pm PDT                                 Overseas outsourcing? by Chairman Mao 08/14/2003, 1:56pm PDT                                     IBM moving 5% of it's work force, as Mao said: fuck you. NT by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 1:58pm PDT                                         He was being sarchastic, Barbie... by Chairman Mao 08/14/2003, 2:18pm PDT                                             What is this sarcasm you speak of? NT by Senor Barborito 08/14/2003, 2:23pm PDT                                             Re: He was being sarchastic, Barbie... by Zebco Fuckface 08/14/2003, 7:00pm PDT     Re: What do you commies make of this? by Zebco Fuckface 08/14/2003, 12:02pm PDT         Individual coverage by corax 08/14/2003, 1:23pm PDT     Komrade BDR responds. by Bill Dungsroman 08/14/2003, 1:07pm PDT         Re: Komrade BDR responds. by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 4:22pm PDT             It sure sucks to be rich. by Mischief Maker 08/14/2003, 7:11pm PDT                 That is the least funny thing I've read in a while. NT by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 9:40pm PDT                     Couldn't you at least use Invisible text in your fake NT post? NT by Mischief Liberatzi 08/14/2003, 9:47pm PDT             Re: Komrade BDR responds. by Bill Dungsroman 08/14/2003, 9:52pm PDT                 Re: Komrade BDR responds. by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 10:46pm PDT                 I disagree!! by I need clarification 08/15/2003, 1:44pm PDT             Re: Komrade BDR responds. by godamit 08/15/2003, 5:15pm PDT                 Hint: by Senor Barborito 08/15/2003, 8:35pm PDT                     I'm glad that was cathartic by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 5:13am PDT                         Oh shut up by Senor Barborito 08/16/2003, 5:36pm PDT                         AND J00 THINK FIGHT CLUB IS ABOUT 2 BOSOM BUDDY TERREASTS!!!!!@@!!!!!! NT by Flick Filosopher 08/16/2003, 7:06pm PDT                     what I was getting at... by godamit 08/18/2003, 2:19pm PDT                         Good post. by Fussbett 08/18/2003, 2:31pm PDT                             Re: Good post. by godamit 08/18/2003, 3:54pm PDT         Re: Komrade BDR responds. by Lizard_King 08/14/2003, 10:43pm PDT             Re: Komrade BDR responds. by Bill Dungsroman 08/15/2003, 6:56pm PDT                 I forgot my favorite quote by Bill Dungsroman 08/15/2003, 8:08pm PDT                     Re: I forgot my favorite quote by Lizard_King 08/15/2003, 10:39pm PDT                 Medical Savings Accounts by Bitter 08/16/2003, 8:45pm PDT                     Huh. So, who clears the expense as justified? by Lizard_King 08/16/2003, 9:45pm PDT