Forum Overview :: Dead Trees
 
I wondered how long it would take until someone brought up Montesquieu... by Fussbett 05/05/2009, 11:12pm PDT
Zsenitan wrote:

we have a detailed picture of our personal smallness and irrelevance. All first-worlders are encouraged to feel a grief that was formerly the province only of aristocracy: that we have failed to make the most of our potential, that we will not succeed even as far as our parents did.

This is a grief that I feel permeates the 60s and 70s, a grief written into your story here.

That's quite a lot of reading into the backstories of the four characters who have no backstories at all (aside from one guy having learned Mandolin previously). Can we really start talking about underachieving malaise and disappointing your father from those 5.5 pages?

We would be mystified if some long-standing regular suddenly demonstrated that he thought that this was a wrongly done forum - not just that he felt personally unwelcome or failed to hack it, but that the way that the forum itself is structured, the rules it has and the traditions it rests upon... that these things were inherently incorrect.

Wasn't that BDR? And he "killed himself" by going to Qt3, so your theory holds up there.

Victor and Julia and Edward all built lives based on certain assumptions, which they held in spite of evidence to the contrary, or even because they would rather hold the assumption than grasp a worthlessly ugly reality. When it was no longer possible to stay deluded, they were overcome by grief and committed suicide. That some of the suicides in the story are witnesses to others is just standard-issue Lynchian unreliable narrator stuff. Ann, their child - biologically in two out of three cases, culturally in two out of three cases - will enter into the same world of potentially lethal irrelevancy. The results are left unreported.

I don't think Victor was living any delusions at all. In fact in most ways Victor is portrayed as a nearly passionless realist/fatalist.

I also don't agree with the unreliable narrator explaining away the constant huge inconsistencies in the tales, including different people dying in some versions. Or more correctly, I hope that's not the explanation for something so deliberate and intrinsic to the story, because that's a terrible gimmick to throw in for no reason, for no bigger statement. Let's consider that the John W. Campbell award winner who Harlan Ellison says is "one of the few writers in the world whom I will gladly, happily, loudly declare is a better writer than I am" is doing something larger. Because otherwise this story sucks as a pointless poor-man's Rashomon.

We all agree that these characters are in (a) hell(s), as naming the story Gehenna makes that clear, but can we also agree there is a sci-fi component? The prologue from the "Best SF 71" editors alludes to something going "terribly wrong with the subway"...
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Caltrops Book Club: Gehenna by Barry Malzberg by Fussbett 05/05/2009, 10:58am PDT NEW
    Gehenna is another word for purgatory by up with pod people 05/05/2009, 12:48pm PDT NEW
    Here's an idea (for Zseni to poop on). Only the unflattering parts are true. NT by Last 05/05/2009, 1:02pm PDT NEW
    I think there's some clue to the allegory in the sequence of stops, although I by motherfuckerfoodeater 05/05/2009, 1:39pm PDT NEW
        Whoa! A New York perspective! This could be big. by Fussbett 05/05/2009, 2:06pm PDT NEW
    Maybe it's my assburgers but I don't see a problem here. by Zsenitan 05/05/2009, 2:40pm PDT NEW
        I wondered how long it would take until someone brought up Montesquieu... by Fussbett 05/05/2009, 11:12pm PDT NEW
            Hmmm who's right me or not me hmmmm by Zsenitan 05/06/2009, 4:27am PDT NEW
                Re: Hmmm who's right me or not me hmmmm by Fussbett 05/06/2009, 11:11pm PDT NEW
                    Re: Hmmm who's right me or not me hmmmm by Zsenitan 05/07/2009, 1:00am PDT NEW
                    Here's a terrible "what if" by The Happiness Engine 05/07/2009, 6:57pm PDT NEW
                        Yeah, that fits the SF angle Fussbett may have been looking for. by Last 05/07/2009, 8:17pm PDT NEW
                        I think I feel something similar -- variation: by up with pod people 05/07/2009, 9:37pm PDT NEW
    Re: Caltrops Book Club: Gehenna by Barry Malzberg by Mysterious Stranger 05/06/2009, 5:15am PDT NEW
        Jesus hiding in plain sight! FSBT: better or worse than Rashomon? NT by Zsenitan 05/06/2009, 5:57am PDT NEW
            That would've been better than poor man's Rashomon if true and we missed it NT by Fussbett 05/06/2009, 9:26pm PDT NEW
        Sorry, this is wrong. by motherfuckerfoodeater 05/06/2009, 8:22am PDT NEW
    Re: Caltrops Book Club: Gehenna by Barry Malzberg by N 05/08/2009, 3:22am PDT NEW
        Is Fussbett's story just a primitive version of the movie Sliding Doors? NT by Gwynyth Paltryw 05/08/2009, 3:44am PDT NEW
    I think I'm ready to bring this first book club meeting to a close. by Fussbett 05/08/2009, 3:33pm PDT NEW
        if so, I think sadly then it can't be blown off as mediocre NT by up with pod people 05/08/2009, 3:49pm PDT NEW
        Multiple perspectives: an easy way to inflate a story? by FABIO 05/09/2009, 2:04am PDT NEW
            But this wasn't multiple perspectives, it was multiple events. by Fussbett 05/09/2009, 2:51am PDT NEW
                Purgatory (video game reference for video game forum) by FABIO 05/09/2009, 4:47am PDT NEW
                    Re: Purgatory (video game reference for video game forum) by Fussbett 05/09/2009, 1:31pm PDT NEW
                        Ohhh, here we go! by QuĂ©tinbec 05/09/2009, 7:29pm PDT NEW
                            Someone get the camcorder! "Nooooooo!!!" NT by Fussbett 05/09/2009, 7:47pm PDT NEW
                            The happy what? NT by FABIO 05/10/2009, 1:56am PDT NEW
                                I guess the war ended before it started. PLUS: shithead actor is a shithead. by Fussbett 05/11/2009, 1:05am PDT NEW
                                    Fabio linked Love Thief without watching it,so I accidently thought he was great NT by QuĂ©tinbec 05/11/2009, 4:58pm PDT NEW
                                    Goddamn internet by Fussbett 05/11/2009, 5:19pm PDT NEW
 
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