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Forum Overview
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Dead Trees
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by Zsenitan 05/07/2009, 1:00am PDT |
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Fussbett wrote:
Zsenitan wrote:
I don't think twice (....ever) but especially with regards to considering stories as being part of their time and place. This is a story in a sci-fi compilation from 1971; we can reasonably assume that it was written within five years of '71. I assume further, without even fact-checking, that the author is an American. So I'm comfortable with glossing all kinds of shit in a story through that lens.
I don't think the story can't be a fugue about depression in 1966, but I demand that it's more, because people are telling me it's more. Their praise of Malzberg and their inclusion of this story in the BEST SF 71 tell me.
It does occasionally appear that you're working off some peculiar assumptions (possibly even more peculiar than mine.)
1. When you say "it's in The Best SF 71, hence..." it suggests that you think that the anthology Best SF 71 actually does contain the best SF produced in 1971. I think that these anthologies are not necessarily curated with an eye towards literary history, and that it's quite possible that Malzberg's story was included despite not being intensely fraught with meaning or sci-fi because the author of that story is Malzberg.
2. Malzberg is a roundly-praised writer, which seems to inform the position that his work must be roundly-praisable throughout. But that doesn't really make sense, and unless this particular story is considered to be one of Malzberg's great works, an important part of his reputation as a writer, then his general critical acclaim doesn't really come into play when evaluating the story.
3. Harlan Ellison's praise works the same way: even if he considers Malzberg a much better author than himself, unless he believes this substantially on the basis of Gehenna, it doesn't really matter. Indeed it's better not to argue from authority on this point.
I think the story, which is for the record a cool story, is informed by the existential depression that I see in the 60s and 70s. But I don't think that's what it's about. I think it's about three spooky ends and one spooky beginning. It's also the other way around from Rashomon: not three accounts of the same activity, but multiple accounts of multiple lives. All three accounts more or less agree where they all overlap: the party.
Sci-fi sometimes pretends to another name, "speculative fiction", which I think would fit very well here.
I hear you, and this story is definitely spec-fi, but your fugue rumination explanation still lacks the "what if?" that spec-fi demands. Instead your interpretation is an "And so..." unless I misunderstand. My goal is to figure out the what if?
Dunno hoss I think the what if happens right at the beginning. What if you got off a train and walked into a party and the important parts of your life were formed right there; what if three people walked off of three trains and that was what determined what kind of lives they would have. That sort of thing. So far the Come To Jesus theory is the front-runner in the Tying Things Up Neatly With Meaning category if that's really what you're into. |
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Caltrops Book Club: Gehenna by Barry Malzberg by Fussbett 05/05/2009, 10:58am PDT 
Gehenna is another word for purgatory by up with pod people 05/05/2009, 12:48pm PDT
Here's an idea (for Zseni to poop on). Only the unflattering parts are true. NT by Last 05/05/2009, 1:02pm PDT
I think there's some clue to the allegory in the sequence of stops, although I by motherfuckerfoodeater 05/05/2009, 1:39pm PDT
Whoa! A New York perspective! This could be big. by Fussbett 05/05/2009, 2:06pm PDT
Maybe it's my assburgers but I don't see a problem here. by Zsenitan 05/05/2009, 2:40pm PDT
I wondered how long it would take until someone brought up Montesquieu... by Fussbett 05/05/2009, 11:12pm PDT
Hmmm who's right me or not me hmmmm by Zsenitan 05/06/2009, 4:27am PDT
Re: Hmmm who's right me or not me hmmmm by Fussbett 05/06/2009, 11:11pm PDT
Re: Hmmm who's right me or not me hmmmm by Zsenitan 05/07/2009, 1:00am PDT
Here's a terrible "what if" by The Happiness Engine 05/07/2009, 6:57pm PDT
Yeah, that fits the SF angle Fussbett may have been looking for. by Last 05/07/2009, 8:17pm PDT
I think I feel something similar -- variation: by up with pod people 05/07/2009, 9:37pm PDT
Re: Caltrops Book Club: Gehenna by Barry Malzberg by Mysterious Stranger 05/06/2009, 5:15am PDT
Jesus hiding in plain sight! FSBT: better or worse than Rashomon? NT by Zsenitan 05/06/2009, 5:57am PDT
That would've been better than poor man's Rashomon if true and we missed it NT by Fussbett 05/06/2009, 9:26pm PDT
Sorry, this is wrong. by motherfuckerfoodeater 05/06/2009, 8:22am PDT
Re: Caltrops Book Club: Gehenna by Barry Malzberg by N 05/08/2009, 3:22am PDT
Is Fussbett's story just a primitive version of the movie Sliding Doors? NT by Gwynyth Paltryw 05/08/2009, 3:44am PDT
I think I'm ready to bring this first book club meeting to a close. by Fussbett 05/08/2009, 3:33pm PDT
if so, I think sadly then it can't be blown off as mediocre NT by up with pod people 05/08/2009, 3:49pm PDT
Multiple perspectives: an easy way to inflate a story? by FABIO 05/09/2009, 2:04am PDT
But this wasn't multiple perspectives, it was multiple events. by Fussbett 05/09/2009, 2:51am PDT
Purgatory (video game reference for video game forum) by FABIO 05/09/2009, 4:47am PDT
Re: Purgatory (video game reference for video game forum) by Fussbett 05/09/2009, 1:31pm PDT
Ohhh, here we go! by Quétinbec 05/09/2009, 7:29pm PDT
Someone get the camcorder! "Nooooooo!!!" NT by Fussbett 05/09/2009, 7:47pm PDT
The happy what? NT by FABIO 05/10/2009, 1:56am PDT
I guess the war ended before it started. PLUS: shithead actor is a shithead. by Fussbett 05/11/2009, 1:05am PDT
Fabio linked Love Thief without watching it,so I accidently thought he was great NT by Quétinbec 05/11/2009, 4:58pm PDT
Goddamn internet by Fussbett 05/11/2009, 5:19pm PDT
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