Forum Overview :: Balance of Power
 
Re: Why do you love Sanders? by Vested Id 04/11/2016, 2:31am PDT
(reply to MM too) wrote:

Okay, what DID get accomplished by Occupy Wall Street, nearly 5 year later? That's the problem with activism today, thinking "raising awareness" is enough when it's barely step 1. The social media crowd gets bored and moves on to the next fad.


That next fad being getting Bernie elected. Widespread social change isn't about flipping switches, it's more like sobriety - acknowledging the problem is absolutely step one. The real problem is the way people evaluate gains versus losses; the gap between the reaction and the (I guess) proaction can be big. I don't know, for example, that I consider it injustice that a guy who held up a convenience store is shot by a cop after apparently trying to attack him. But if I take that as my reason for deciding the Black Lives Matter movement is bullshit, I'm an idiot child demanding fair play over the consequences that clearly outweigh them (i.e. the deaths of a lot of other black teenagers). The issue is way more important than the games people have to play to get the attention of the public, and a more grown-up body politic would accept that with grace and move on to the next step.

To put this another way, it's not enough to accept that we "know" we have a problem, it's to accept that the problem is really real and affecting us right now, so that the only way for us to clear our conscience is to begin trying to fix it. It's about breaking denial.

Sanders' approach is what the political reaction should have been? Can you point out any specifics on that? I point back to TARP where his "I get everything I want in a perfect bill or I don't play ball, regardless of what it does to the country" approach would have screwed a ton of people just to make a point. Should politicians have refused any health care bill short of a European universal coverage dream? A ton of people would now be dead still waiting, including laudablepuss. Is his liver worth your uncompromising stance?


I guess it's really a question of whether "good enough" is good enough for every decision. Like really if they did the best they could, and the results are unacceptable, do you live with results with a shrug - the entire United States - or do you realize serious change needs to happen, then do what you can to make that change happen?

Vested Id wrote:

It's a special kind of mind control to associate having wits with playing ball, and being outraged with stupidity. Call it the Barzini Point of No Return, where you pivot from being sickened by a moral universe to being a conspirator in it.


This is odd considering you and Bernie supporters are associating playing ball with corruption. Real life isn't Mr Smith Goes to Washington, where whoever throws the most moving tantrum magically fixes everything.


I think politicians, like everyone else, eventually orient their programs and really their entire personas around what they consider possible within their powers. If there's a sea change in what the population expects, they're not going to have any choice but to come around.

Most people don't know how hard it is to pass something in Washington, and all the hard work that goes into it.


Everyone is aware of this. "Most people don't know how hard it is to cram all these transistors into a silicon wafer" - die bitch, it's a market economy.

It's extremely easy to look at someone like Barney Frank and start Body Snatchers yelling at him for being a corrupt traitor, but the man knows how the game is played and that work involved in making things better isn't run purely on outrage and believing hard enough.


I guess the point is that if you want to vote for Bernie then you're like that guy. I'm not, maybe MM is, probably not. This is such an idiotic digression, "when did you fellas stop beating Barney Frank".

Here's an account...


Dear lord, TL;DR - the negotiations to get TARP passed were so tense when McCain took a break from campaigning and dropped in on Washington - and apparently did nothing - it nonetheless ended up making some staffers lose a bunch more sleep. I feel terrible for people who have impossible shitty jobs in high places... your point though? That capitol hill is such a fragile ecosystem that we should obey the prime directive and appreciate whatever we get? I don't know man, if it's really that savage then maybe savage action is necessary to set things right, like that one big war over another issue we shrug couldn't do anything about.
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Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by Mischief Maker 04/05/2016, 5:37pm PDT NEW
    Oh god a little sprite bernie appeared NT by Worm 04/05/2016, 6:21pm PDT NEW
    AP called it for Bernie! Now the question is by how much? NT by Mischief Maker 04/05/2016, 7:04pm PDT NEW
        13 point lead? Not bad! by Mischief Maker 04/06/2016, 5:13am PDT NEW
            Not that you'll hear about it in the mainstream press. NT by Quest for the Dean Scream 04/07/2016, 5:53pm PDT NEW
                Holy fuck. by Mischief Maker 04/07/2016, 7:00pm PDT NEW
                    Interesting by Mysterio 04/07/2016, 10:59pm PDT NEW
                        Now he's getting a fist-bump from the pope?! What a rollercoaster of a campaign! by Mischief Maker 04/08/2016, 9:47am PDT NEW
    Should I be proud of my Republican neighbors? by Mischief Maker 04/05/2016, 7:51pm PDT NEW
        Whaaaaaaat the hell NT by Vested Id 04/06/2016, 3:42am PDT NEW
    Why do you love Sanders? by just curious 04/08/2016, 9:58am PDT NEW
        and I'm asking because you normally seem well informed on this stuff by just curious 04/08/2016, 10:00am PDT NEW
        Re: Why do you love Sanders? by Mischief Maker 04/08/2016, 11:29am PDT NEW
            Refer to my long posts below for more details, but by just curious 04/08/2016, 6:46pm PDT NEW
        Why do you love Kool-Aid? NT by Even more curious 04/08/2016, 2:51pm PDT NEW
            It washes away the bad taste left by this video: by Mischief Maker 04/08/2016, 3:51pm PDT NEW
                Hey dumbass I was insulting Curious not you NT by Wall Street commited no crimes 04/08/2016, 5:42pm PDT NEW
                    a simplistic, emotional insult. Thanks. Have you seen the Daily News interview? by just curious 04/08/2016, 6:33pm PDT NEW
        Re: Why do you love Sanders? by The Happiness Engine 04/08/2016, 3:57pm PDT NEW
            Not being able to prove the execs knowingly committed fraud was the problem by (reply to MM too) 04/08/2016, 5:41pm PDT NEW
                Sanders' plan to rein in banks amounts to praying for a miracle by Mysterio 04/09/2016, 11:13am PDT NEW
                    That's another problem with Bernie by just curious 04/09/2016, 6:48pm PDT NEW
        Re: Why do you love Sanders? by Vested Id 04/08/2016, 5:07pm PDT NEW
            Re: Why do you love Sanders? by (reply to MM too) 04/08/2016, 6:11pm PDT NEW
                Leftist coalitions have been a wreck since the fall of unions by skip 04/09/2016, 11:55am PDT NEW
                    The purity test obsession and niche assholes is what's killing progressives by just curious 04/09/2016, 1:11pm PDT NEW
                        Psst! Scroll down! NT by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 1:15pm PDT NEW
                Re: Why do you love Sanders? by Vested Id 04/11/2016, 2:31am PDT NEW
        Re: Why do you love Sanders? by Mischief Maker 04/08/2016, 8:41pm PDT NEW
            A little more on Sanders' legislative record before bed by Mischief Maker 04/08/2016, 8:49pm PDT NEW
                Rolling Stone? NT by really? 04/09/2016, 10:17am PDT NEW
                    You would prefer something by the New York Times? by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 12:45pm PDT NEW
                    Going DURR on the source is really weak. by Mysterio 04/09/2016, 12:51pm PDT NEW
                        Bernie himself is the best source by just curious 04/09/2016, 7:06pm PDT NEW
                    How 'bout this? by Mischief Maker 04/17/2016, 7:42pm PDT NEW
                So he set a record for amendments, and not a single one made it through? by just curious 04/09/2016, 10:53am PDT NEW
                    Re: So he set a record for amendments, and not a single one made it through? by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 12:51pm PDT NEW
                    Also: by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 12:57pm PDT NEW
                        (This is the guy who inspired the character of Gordon Gekko) NT by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 1:00pm PDT NEW
                            I'm trying to take you seriously here by just curious 04/09/2016, 1:15pm PDT NEW
                                No you're not. by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 1:33pm PDT NEW
                                You're getting your ass kicked. NT by Mysterio 04/09/2016, 3:16pm PDT NEW
                                    ^ the substance of a Sanders supporter NT by just curious 04/09/2016, 7:07pm PDT NEW
                                        Guys, this person is just curious and of high substance. NT by Kenny Mayne 04/10/2016, 10:24pm PDT NEW
                                I just fucking hate women. Is that an acceptable reason? NT by Worm 04/09/2016, 4:10pm PDT NEW
                                    Only if your hate is honest by Issue an emergency CALTROPS CARES! 04/09/2016, 4:44pm PDT NEW
                                        Re: Only if your hate is honest by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 5:07pm PDT NEW
                                            This is why I'm not bothered by Sanders's silly shoot-for-the moon goals. by Fullofkittens 04/09/2016, 6:54pm PDT NEW
                                                That style of negotiation only works if the other side is by just curious 04/09/2016, 7:51pm PDT NEW
                                                    also only if you're willing to scale down the initial offer by just curious 04/09/2016, 8:00pm PDT NEW
                                                    I was alluding to huge funding, weapon deals by Not Congressional bills 04/09/2016, 8:57pm PDT NEW
                                        Down with old white men patriarchy! In with Bernie! NT by an actual Binro opinion 04/09/2016, 6:33pm PDT NEW
                                speaking of independent Senators by just curious 04/09/2016, 6:29pm PDT NEW
                                    Why is people switching party affiliation such a big issue? by Worm 04/09/2016, 7:53pm PDT NEW
                                        In principle? It's not by just curious 04/09/2016, 8:01pm PDT NEW
                                            But that's a different old jewish man, right? NT by Worm 04/09/2016, 8:15pm PDT NEW
                                You're killing laudablepuss, Larry! NT by Walter Sobchak 04/09/2016, 8:52pm PDT NEW
            okay, now you're just making stuff up by just curious 04/09/2016, 7:37pm PDT NEW
                holy shit, you thought you were telling jokes this whole time?! NT by speaking frankily 04/09/2016, 7:53pm PDT NEW
                He's less overexcited than you about all of this. NT by Worm 04/09/2016, 8:00pm PDT NEW
                    another "I dont care about another yet topic" Worm post ding grats NT by +1 04/09/2016, 8:20pm PDT NEW
                        I care about the topic, jc is far more excitable as anti-bernie than mm is pro by Worm 04/09/2016, 8:41pm PDT NEW
        Let's try this from a different angle. by Mischief Maker 04/10/2016, 5:45am PDT NEW
            Media loves drama. They're out to "get" anyone. NT by Do you think they love Clinton? 04/10/2016, 6:21pm PDT NEW
                Re: Media loves drama. They're out to "get" anyone. by Mischief Maker 04/15/2016, 6:56am PDT NEW
                    I wonder if there's a better source for media coverage by than some photo bitching about CNN 04/16/2016, 8:45am PDT NEW
                "Bernie Sanders says private meeting with Pope Francis is not an endorsement" NT by Washington Post Headline 04/16/2016, 8:16am PDT NEW
    Bernie wins by double digits again in Wyoming! by Mischief Maker 04/09/2016, 5:18pm PDT NEW
        Yeah, but check the allocation after superdelegates by not enough for Berning Man 04/09/2016, 9:05pm PDT NEW
            Berning Man! I'm stealing that NT by perfect description of Sanders base 04/12/2016, 10:22pm PDT NEW
                This primary represents the eternal battle between Hippies and Yuppies. NT by Mischief Maker 04/14/2016, 4:27pm PDT NEW
    Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by ja 04/11/2016, 12:17pm PDT NEW
        Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by Historio 04/11/2016, 2:09pm PDT NEW
    Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by ja 04/17/2016, 1:15pm PDT NEW
        So... white people attract rain clouds? by Mischief Maker 04/17/2016, 1:30pm PDT NEW
    Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by ja 04/17/2016, 1:34pm PDT NEW
    Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by ja 04/17/2016, 1:39pm PDT NEW
    Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by ja 04/17/2016, 1:43pm PDT NEW
    Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by ja watching 04/17/2016, 3:12pm PDT NEW
        Re: Don't you fucking disappoint me, Wisconsin! by ja watching 04/17/2016, 3:14pm PDT NEW
            They are great jumping off points for additional discussions, however. by Kenny Mayne 04/17/2016, 3:18pm PDT NEW
 
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