Forum Overview :: Gamerasutra
 
That was easily the stupidest thing you have ever written by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 2:16am PST
Monty Cantsin wrote:

But I love how "Korean" has become shorthand for "mindless" in the context of real-time strategy. Interesting that I've never heard anyone complain about "mindless" Koreans being too easy to beat. No, somehow their trivial, predictable, repetitive, so-simple-a-monkey-could-do-it strategies have magically "broken" the game is such a way that occidental crybabies all over the world are no longer capable of playing it. Not because they couldn't if they wanted to, oh no. It's because the game is no longer fun. Yeah, well guess what? Playing tennis against Pete Sampras is also not going to be fun. Because while you're modelling shins Pete Sampras is hitting balls, while you're arguing politics Sampras is hitting balls, while you're sleeping late he's hitting balls, while you're idly picking at a piece of dead skin on the back of your neck and wondering what to have for dinner he's on the fucking tennis court hitting goddamn balls. This is how you get good at a fucking game in case you haven't noticed - you figure out what you have to do to win and you do it.


HI YES WOULD YOU LIKE TO ORDER THE XL STRAWMAN OR THE XXL STRAWMAN YOU FUCKING ASSUMPTIVE GODDAMN MORON?

Here's the problem with the Korean gameplayers on Blizzard.Net - they were first to champion the reduction of Blizzard's simplistic rock/paper/scissors game mechanics down to mindless algorithm execution. Rote algorithm execution is NOT strategy - chess is strategy. The point at which a game loses any intellectual appeal from explorations of positional combinations and devolves into unabashed clicking of buttons in a certain predetermined sequence as quickly as possible is the point at which the game has ceased to be fun in an objective and inarguable sense.

That's game, set, and match for this debate right there, you motherfucking pompous jackass.

Any game played at a high enough level is going to be boring to a patzer, which is what these whining douchebags are. Boo hoo! He beat me by hitting the ball to a place I can't reach over and over again. How is that fun? Maybe if you could figure out how to return a fucking serve the game wouldn't appear to be so "broken". Hitting the ball hard isn't the point of tennis, it's the point at which tennis begins. If you're playing someone who can hit hard then being able to hit hard is the entry fee you have to muster before the actual game, the deep game, the interesting high-level game even starts. In an RTS, clicking fast and knowing what beats what is the exact same thing.


I played tennis and chess each several times a week for years. Tennis is a mental game about position and outwitting your opponent - recombination creates a functionally infinite number of tennis moves much as chess does. There is a game played at a high level because of these infinite possibilities. In Warcraft 3 or Starcraft any player with the right build order and unit production order who can click faster than you will beat you every last goddamn time no matter what you do, end of story.

Jesus, who complains about clicking in a computer game for godsake? Do you complain about button pushing in Virtual Fighter? Aw, he just pushed the buttons faster than me. Yeah, well sort of, I guess. Awww, he knows the combos, he knocked me down and took the football, he memorized the dictionary, he studied openings, he bet more than I could afford, he practiced, he worked, he won.

Let me let all you rts-dilettante, Korean-hating motherfuckers in on a little secret: you weren't out-clicked, you were out-played. You don't have to like it, but please shut up about it.

/mc


There comes a point in the game where it literally comes down to who can push the unit production buttons faster because absolutely every 'good' player uses the same build order, the same units, and the same strategy (RUSH). At this point the game is reduced to an exercise in who can click faster and this is exactly what happened to Starcraft. There is no 'outplayed' when there is only one viable strategem.

--SB
There are plenty of people who can push buttons faster than me in Virtua Fighter, but NOBODY out of (~20 opponets/day avg * 1day/week * 4weeks/month * 5 months = ~400) has ever beaten me at the game even once.
PREVIOUS NEXT REPLY QUOTE
 
Why I hate RTS and how to make the greatest one EVAR by Tom-Foolery Constructor 02/21/2003, 2:29pm PST NEW
    Re: Why I hate RTS and how to make the greatest one EVAR by FABIO 02/21/2003, 7:23pm PST NEW
        What's wrong with rock/paper/scissors? by FoK 02/23/2003, 9:37pm PST NEW
            Re: What's wrong with rock/paper/scissors? by FABIO 02/23/2003, 11:01pm PST NEW
                Re: What's wrong with rock/paper/scissors? by fok 02/23/2003, 11:11pm PST NEW
            Did you even read the initial post? by Senor Barborito 02/23/2003, 11:10pm PST NEW
                Yeah... by fok 02/24/2003, 12:57am PST NEW
                you just rebuted yourself by FABIO 02/24/2003, 10:04am PST NEW
                    I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by Senor Barborito 02/24/2003, 10:17am PST NEW
                        Willful Misunderstanding by Mr. Palomar 02/24/2003, 12:39pm PST NEW
                        Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by FABIO 02/24/2003, 2:24pm PST NEW
                            Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by FABIO 02/24/2003, 2:26pm PST NEW
                                I did answer you, dumbass. Christ you're thick. by Senor Barborito 02/24/2003, 11:38pm PST NEW
                                    Re: I did answer you, dumbass. Christ you're thick. by FABIO 02/25/2003, 10:56am PST NEW
                                        Re: I did answer you, dumbass. Christ you're thick. by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:16pm PST NEW
                                            Fixed quotes. And hopefully clarified for the final time here. by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:24pm PST NEW
                                            JU-LIE! JU-LIE! JU-LIE! -nt- by Bill Dungsroman 02/26/2003, 5:21pm PST NEW
                                                Re: JU-LIE! JU-LIE! JU-LIE! -nt- by FABIO 02/26/2003, 9:24pm PST NEW
                        Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by Ice Cream Jonsey 02/24/2003, 3:25pm PST NEW
                            RE: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by Alternate789 02/24/2003, 4:16pm PST NEW
                            Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by curst 02/24/2003, 11:16pm PST NEW
                Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 1:40am PST NEW
                    That was easily the stupidest thing you have ever written by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 2:16am PST NEW
                        Re: That was easily the stupidest thing you have ever written by Zseni 02/25/2003, 2:35am PST NEW
                        Koreans: fast index fingers? by Fussbett 02/25/2003, 4:17am PST NEW
                            No, fast min-max by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:22am PST NEW
                                Re: No, fast min-max by ValiumAddict 02/25/2003, 3:39pm PST NEW
                                Re: No, fast min-max by TehFieryBalrog 07/05/2007, 9:36pm PDT NEW
                        Re: That was easily the stupidest thing you have ever written by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 4:44pm PST NEW
                    Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Zseni 02/25/2003, 2:26am PST NEW
                        Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 4:20pm PST NEW
                            Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Zseni 02/25/2003, 5:28pm PST NEW
                                Queneau plays Black and White by Mr. Palomar 02/25/2003, 5:59pm PST NEW
                                Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 7:35pm PST NEW
                                Re: Did you even read the initial post? by TehFieryBalrog 07/05/2007, 9:40pm PDT NEW
                                    If you're going to respond to 2003 you could get the title right. NT by Soul Calibur 07/05/2007, 9:42pm PDT NEW
                    Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Ray, of Light 02/25/2003, 3:39am PST NEW
                        I used to win money playing Quake regularly by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:41am PST NEW
                            "See, I'm really good a video games!" by Irritating kid 02/25/2003, 9:20am PST NEW
                                Re: "See, I'm really good a video games!" by FABIO 02/25/2003, 11:55am PST NEW
                                    Hey, that's my line. by Fussbett 02/25/2003, 4:06pm PST NEW
                                        Video Games, Chess, and Laziness. by mrs. johnson 02/25/2003, 4:40pm PST NEW
                                            Yes, exactly. by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:29pm PST NEW
                                                Re: Yes, exactly. by mark 02/25/2003, 8:36pm PST NEW
                                                    This argument is pretty much over by now, right? by Bodybag 02/25/2003, 9:08pm PST NEW
                                                    There isn't one strategy for chess that will always win NT by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 11:49pm PST NEW
                                        that's guy's a fucking crackpot by FABIO 02/25/2003, 6:35pm PST NEW
                                            I don't know about suspense games, but much of his strategy talk is dead on-nt- by mark 02/25/2003, 6:51pm PST NEW
                                            it's all DePalma's fault by jeep 02/25/2003, 7:45pm PST NEW
                                                Re: it's all DePalma's fault by FABIO 02/25/2003, 10:44pm PST NEW
                                    Re: "See, I'm really good a video games!" by TehFieryBalrog 07/05/2007, 9:43pm PDT NEW
                                        This guy is new and already knows SB was crazy and Zseni is bad at everything by Flavilio 07/06/2007, 12:10am PDT NEW
                                            Battlenet screenname is Balrog200 or soapie on USEast, channel scu NT by TehFieryBalrog 07/07/2007, 12:32am PDT NEW
                                                alternatively aim screenname is balrog36 NT by TehFieryBalrog 07/07/2007, 12:47am PDT NEW
                                                    ^^^ This guy loves balrogs. NT by Any and all balrogs. 07/07/2007, 2:57am PDT NEW
                        Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 5:03pm PST NEW
                            You CAN turtle in RA2+YR by Bodybag 02/25/2003, 6:57pm PST NEW
                                Re: You CAN turtle in RA2+YR by jeep 02/25/2003, 7:51pm PST NEW
                                    Re: You CAN turtle in RA2+YR by Bodybag 02/25/2003, 8:17pm PST NEW
                            Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Ray, of Light 02/25/2003, 8:00pm PST NEW
                        StarScripts are tomorrow's Blueprints by Fussbett 10/30/2006, 11:30pm PST NEW
 
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