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Forum Overview
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Motherfucking News
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by CrackerBarrel 02/05/2003, 12:36pm PST |
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laudablepuss wrote:
Zebco Fuckface wrote:
laudablepuss wrote:
Zebco Fuckface wrote:
I can't believe this shit.
France is no longer an ally of the United States and the NATO alliance "must develop a strategy to contain our erstwhile ally or we will not be talking about a NATO alliance" the head of the Pentagon's top advisory board said in Washington Tuesday.
Richard Perle, a former assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration and now chairman of the Pentagon's Policy Advisory Board, condemned French and German policy on Iraq in the strongest terms at a public seminar organized by a New York-based PR firm and attended by Iraqi exiles and American Middle East and security officials.
What's insane about this? The French have no leg to stand on whatsoever and he's calling them on it. Or is the crazy part saying bad things about one's allies in public, even when they are true? For my part, the apparent nuttiness of this:
[We] must develop a strategy to contain our erstwhile ally or we will not be talking about a NATO alliance
is at least offset by the sound pragmatism of this:
It is now reasonable to ask whether the United States should now or on any other occasion subordinate vital national interests to a show of hands by nations who do not share our interests.
Anyway it's no worse than what they say about us.
......
You don't think an "unofficial" mouthpiece of Bush talking about how France needs to be "contained" is crazy?
What would you do to a country that delights in actively thwarting your interests worldwide? That defends the completely indefensible Saddam Hussein and is working to keep him in power? WTF? Who's the crazy one in all of this if it's not Chirac and the French?
I think things are changing fast in world affairs and I think we ought to wake up to it for a second. Yeah, France, who cares? But the point is that throughout the cold war there has always been this polite facade and grudging support from the more liberal members of the "free world" but now it seems that the gloves are off. We all know that France more or less openly criticizes us and we generally turn the other cheek considering it harmless. I think Germany here is playing their conscience which is really above reproach. What I don't think the hotheaded Perle realizes is that he probably doesn't like a world where no one cooperates with the US. In other words, he actually ought to kiss more ass because the ramifications worldwide are, I think, a bit more dire than he considers.
It's a foregone conclusion that we're going to hit Iraq. It's been in the cards for awhile and we have the support, however nominal, to do it, but I think this will be the last time we can embark on such an overtly offensive military maneuver without the serious backlash of the world community. And it seems they are less cowed by us and, in fact, more openly disdainful of our policies. Did anyone catch the statements made by Nelson Mandela last week? Think of how much we've done for him and think about how he dares to insult us. The same for Germany. The insult in itself is a non-issue (though people mistakingly decide to focus on it) it's the fact that Mandela, and Germany, and France stand up in the open now to loudly refute US policies abroad.
And I sort of like it. It helps keep us in check. Believe or not, the US government is not the sole arbiter of world justice (I made myself laugh with that). Ang guess what? It doesn't really matter how much I or any of you like it. I think France and Germany's denial to aid us go beyond Saddam. The US derives much of it's world might through the unquestioning compliance of even the most powerful countries. Now that that compliance is degrading, I think you'll start to see more and more overt action against the United States. Sadly, I imagine the most nefarious organizations will see this and play up to rising anti-US sympathies and may be able to get away with more than they ought. To be frank, this is not the time to lose allies. But then again the Reagan administration was never really known for its delicacy.
Reading over his statements again it strikes me that Perle is a bit out of his era. That whole "show of hands" nonsense not only smacks of playground bullying, but it begs the question: What if France and Germany and even the whole European Union declares itself "not supportive" of US world policy? Do you think declaring them "enemies" and investigating their motives are going to anything? We're obviously decades (I hope) if not forever away from military action against any European country, so what exactly would we do if we really can't call Germany an ally anymore? Actually, maybe, try to be more gentle in our heavy-handed international proclamations and actions? Nah. I heard about the Mandela comments on Crossfire where that hopeless nerd in the bowtie called for some sort of retaliation against Mandela, The Nobel Peace Prize winner. I heard that and laughed because you can hear the desperate impotence. I agree that Mandela's statements are a bit over the top, but maybe knowingly so. We can't strong-arm anyone anymore and it's time our international actions reflected that.
"In reaction to Mandela's comments, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Bush was grateful to the many European leaders who 'obviously think differently.' " Sounds like that number is dwindling. |
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Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zebco Fuckface 02/04/2003, 11:58pm PST 
I thought Divide and Conquer pertained to one's enemies -nt- by Entropy Stew 02/05/2003, 12:50am PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 2:42am PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zebco Fuckface 02/05/2003, 5:50am PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 11:41am PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by CrackerBarrel 02/05/2003, 12:36pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 1:21pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by CrackerBarrel 02/05/2003, 2:30pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Senor Barborito 02/05/2003, 5:06pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 5:43pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zseni 02/05/2003, 7:53pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 8:51pm PST
Ugh, sorry for the mispelled words. -nt- by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 8:54pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zseni 02/05/2003, 9:25pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 1:18am PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zseni 02/06/2003, 4:14am PST
Wait just a goddam minute by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 7:53pm PST
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by Zseni 02/06/2003, 8:06pm PST
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by Bodybag 02/06/2003, 8:26pm PST
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by Zseni 02/06/2003, 8:44pm PST
Huh. by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 9:42pm PST
At some point by Senor Barborito 02/07/2003, 12:20am PST
HA HA -nt- by Entropy Stew 02/07/2003, 4:01am PST
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 9:40pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Bodybag 02/05/2003, 9:51pm PST
Cowing + "Which WW2 leader is Bush most like?" by Fussbett 02/06/2003, 12:25am PST
Re: Cowing + "Which WW2 leader is Bush most like?" by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 2:10am PST
Re: Cowing + "Which WW2 leader is Bush most like?" by Fussbett 02/06/2003, 2:48pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Senor Barborito 02/06/2003, 3:09am PST
war killer = war criminal -NT- NT by Senor Barborito 02/06/2003, 3:12am PST
Re: Senior Barborito even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 11:57am PST
Re: Senior Barborito even more insane than previously thought by Zebco Fuckface 02/07/2003, 6:56pm PST
Rust? by laudablepuss 02/07/2003, 7:11pm PST
Re: Rust? by Zebco Fuckface 02/08/2003, 12:32am PST
Re: Rust? by laudablepuss 02/08/2003, 5:15pm PST
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Mischief Maker 02/05/2003, 3:39pm PST
Perfectly serious, not trolling, fire when ready, Gridley. -nt- by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 5:11pm PST
In the future, all debates will be fought with comic strip exchanges by Ray, of Light 02/05/2003, 8:35pm PST
I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T NT by Zebco Fuckface 02/05/2003, 8:31pm PST
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 9:00pm PST
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by Zebco Fuckface 02/06/2003, 12:23am PST
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by Zebco Fuckface 02/06/2003, 12:24am PST
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 3:46pm PST
There goes any hope of UN Authorization for an attack [NT] by Cyrris 02/05/2003, 9:27am PST
In related news, Colin Powell calls France a "bunch of fairies". by CrackerBarrel 02/05/2003, 12:46pm PST
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