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by Bodybag 02/05/2003, 9:51pm PST |
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Zseni wrote:
The 10 million dollar question nobody seems to be able to answer though, and the reason the rest of the world suspects this so is - why is this suddenly more of a problem than it was last year, or two years ago? Hint: it's not. Saddam hit the US with WMD? Not in his own lifetime.
Zseni's argument. Completely absurd. He's not a threat now, so we should wait until he becomes one. Or, we waited ten years, why not wait ten more? It makes no sense. We played with Iraq for ten years, and now we've figured out that it's just not going to work. Saddam has made it abundantly clear that he absolutely will NOT disarm and that we can't force him to with weapons inspectors. So what's left?
Why are you being forcefully stupid?
The timing has everything to do with it. In particular what does it mean to let the rules go unbroken for ten years? Why did that happen? Then - once it happened - why the sudden shift in policy from "letting it happen" to "declaring war"?
As I mentioned before, US policy-makers first attempted to justify a war in Iraq with sko links to al-Quaeda - didn't pan out. Then they moved on into "but he could still kill us" - but that's not going to get the commie libs, now is it? What will? Oh yeah that UN resolution! S.Res 687, to be specific, signed into action in 1991.
But see here's the problem: if failure to go along with resolutions justifies a war, then are we, the United States, allowed to pick and choose which defaulted-upon resolutions we go to war over - if so, how is that different than simply looking for an excuse to fight? Alternately, if we take it upon ourselves to be the UN's policeman above the voices of other UN members, let's add, then we're going to be at war for the rest of infinity. Is the UN only toothless - sometimes? Toothless when...our own personal interests, or supposed interests, are not at stake? It should work on the in-for-a-penny model, but instead Team Bush seems to believe it works on a "good when it serves my purposes, bad otherwise" principle. Reaganlicious!
The resolution is being used in this case to justify military action - not to motivate it. What is motivating it? Let's pretend I don't know, but I do know that it's not the sudden insistence of the Bush administration that the UN needs a little assistance in enforcing its rulings.
Still sorting out to potential relevance here.... Also here.
Are we now pretending that he hasn't been developing weapons during this time? Kewl. The I shall pro-quo-pretend that there is no financial incentive to attack Iraq. NAH NAH.
Speaking of the money trail, it's deliciously convenient that we're the only nation motivated by its all-consuming greed when these situations arise.
France...Russia...absolutely no financial stake in status-quo Iraq, whatsoever. I mean, its not like it's a total pit of human rights atrocites...as long as the checks clear.
I can't justify the morality of it to you, Zseni. I can't explain why it's all of the sudden soooo important to act now if you've seen the same facts I have and are still not convinced. But I think it IS long overdo, this Saddam-go-bye-bye thing. Our failure to act until now has profited relatively few people besides Saddam himself, and made our task even more difficult. If you're afraid that once this action is completed and called a success that we will essentially adopt a new conquistador policy? Well, look back over at harmless wittle N.Korea once we're done in Iraq. And Iran might want to speed up that student revolution before we have to get rowdy-rowdy there too.
This must alarm many people: that we can arbitrarily decide another nation's govt just won't do, but in answer to your eariler question: yeah, the U.N. is toothless sometimes. They sometimes enforce their policy(Bosnia?),and sometimes they don't(Iraq). Clearly we stand to gain the most from a regime change in Iraq, outside of their own people, that is. Unfortunately, this contrasts starkly with what other major U.N. players would get out of the deal, and he just isn't the threat to their national securities that he is to ours, at least in their opinion. Don't think he's that big a threat to us? You really don't think he has chemical weapons? You really don't think he'd loan a few to some towel-head fundies if they say pretty-please and promise to use them on the U.S. and Isreal? YOU REALLY DON'T THINK THIS IS OF MAJOR CONCERN?
Well, if that's indeed the case, then it's simply where our opinions differ. I'd rather see him flee and get assassinated, personally. And even in the case of war there's no 100% absolute guarantee we'll "get him".(see: bin Laden) I only mention it to point out that, while simply removing him from power is tantamount to our financial/social goals in Iraq, killing/trying him is the only way we could ever get "closure" and call it a day.
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Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zebco Fuckface 02/04/2003, 11:58pm PST 
I thought Divide and Conquer pertained to one's enemies -nt- by Entropy Stew 02/05/2003, 12:50am PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 2:42am PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zebco Fuckface 02/05/2003, 5:50am PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 11:41am PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by CrackerBarrel 02/05/2003, 12:36pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 1:21pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by CrackerBarrel 02/05/2003, 2:30pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Senor Barborito 02/05/2003, 5:06pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 5:43pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zseni 02/05/2003, 7:53pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 8:51pm PST 
Ugh, sorry for the mispelled words. -nt- by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 8:54pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zseni 02/05/2003, 9:25pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 1:18am PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Zseni 02/06/2003, 4:14am PST 
Wait just a goddam minute by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 7:53pm PST 
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by Zseni 02/06/2003, 8:06pm PST 
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by Bodybag 02/06/2003, 8:26pm PST 
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by Zseni 02/06/2003, 8:44pm PST 
Huh. by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 9:42pm PST 
At some point by Senor Barborito 02/07/2003, 12:20am PST 
HA HA -nt- by Entropy Stew 02/07/2003, 4:01am PST 
Re: Wait just a goddam minute by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 9:40pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Bodybag 02/05/2003, 9:51pm PST 
Cowing + "Which WW2 leader is Bush most like?" by Fussbett 02/06/2003, 12:25am PST 
Re: Cowing + "Which WW2 leader is Bush most like?" by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 2:10am PST 
Re: Cowing + "Which WW2 leader is Bush most like?" by Fussbett 02/06/2003, 2:48pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Senor Barborito 02/06/2003, 3:09am PST 
war killer = war criminal -NT- NT by Senor Barborito 02/06/2003, 3:12am PST 
Re: Senior Barborito even more insane than previously thought by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 11:57am PST 
Re: Senior Barborito even more insane than previously thought by Zebco Fuckface 02/07/2003, 6:56pm PST 
Rust? by laudablepuss 02/07/2003, 7:11pm PST 
Re: Rust? by Zebco Fuckface 02/08/2003, 12:32am PST 
Re: Rust? by laudablepuss 02/08/2003, 5:15pm PST 
Re: Richard Perle: even more insane than previously thought by Mischief Maker 02/05/2003, 3:39pm PST 
Perfectly serious, not trolling, fire when ready, Gridley. -nt- by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 5:11pm PST 
In the future, all debates will be fought with comic strip exchanges by Ray, of Light 02/05/2003, 8:35pm PST 
I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T NT by Zebco Fuckface 02/05/2003, 8:31pm PST 
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by laudablepuss 02/05/2003, 9:00pm PST 
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by Zebco Fuckface 02/06/2003, 12:23am PST 
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by Zebco Fuckface 02/06/2003, 12:24am PST 
Re: I didn't think anyone here was actually stupid enough to take Perle'e side N/T by laudablepuss 02/06/2003, 3:46pm PST 
There goes any hope of UN Authorization for an attack [NT] by Cyrris 02/05/2003, 9:27am PST 
In related news, Colin Powell calls France a "bunch of fairies". by CrackerBarrel 02/05/2003, 12:46pm PST 
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